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Old 30-05-2015, 13:19   #61
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by magellanyachts View Post
Not at all. That is what the surveyor said. Had a friend who had a similar BR (but 53') built in Vancouver. Cost him 1 million. That was 10 years ago.
Wood is good but steel is real.
Of course you could build one for less but not this quality. Ideal anchor winch alone was 6 G's.
I'm not saying it is worth anything near that now. Replacement cost meaning new build.
What follows is written with respect for those who actually build and even more respect for those who finish building any kind of boat, and even more respect for those who actually sail the boats they build.

About thirty years ago I considered buying BR plans to build a boat. Then I shifted focus to finding a BR boat that was already finished.

After looking at many BR boats that are for sale, it seems to me that the only thing that is the SAME about any two of them, is the use of the Bruce Roberts name as the designer.

While many will look superficially the same from the outside, that is about all I see that is close, even when they are said to be the same model. Interiors, and "finish" or quality can vary significantly, and it is at that point in the building process that most seem to quit.

I have seen some, few, that look very nice. They were made with much care, much time, and with quality gear and materials. While many others look very crudely finished, if they are said to be finished.

I suspect there are more BR boats in backyards, usually as rusting bare hulls, than out on the water.

Congratulations to those who do finish building one, and get to sail it.
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Old 30-05-2015, 13:28   #62
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
...Congratulations to those who do finish building one, and get to sail it...
"Finish" is such a relative term when it comes to building homemade sailboats. Of all the BR designs out there cruising, how many did so before they were truly finished?
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Old 30-05-2015, 13:45   #63
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
"Finish" is such a relative term when it comes to building homemade sailboats. Of all the BR designs out there cruising, how many did so before they were truly finished?


Good point. I was editing my first remarks to show something like that.

Art is similar.
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Old 30-05-2015, 14:10   #64
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
You know the ONE THING that keeps the 36 off my list is the lack of the aft quarter berth. It perplexes me that they did that.
Our 1982 Cherubini 36 does have the quarter berth. Some don't though, as you say. Funny you should mention $20K. That's what I paid for ours 7 years ago, so very doable.

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Old 30-05-2015, 14:53   #65
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

You got that right although this builder is well known here. They only insure if the owner is a USCG captain with experience with a craft of this tonnage. That was a new one on me having secured insurance for many boats in the past with no problem at all. It was because the boat was not built in a known boat yard.
The other million dollar BR I mentioned was built in a well known yard. Mine was built better by a master craftsman who poured his soul into her.
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Old 30-05-2015, 14:57   #66
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

To Terra Nova
This boat was beautifully finished then went downhill. I am in the process of restoring her. Know what you mean though. Lots of back yard projects with BR
Sorry if I'm getting off-track from the original thread. You know how we all like to talk about our boats. LOL
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Old 30-05-2015, 16:13   #67
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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The "much of a boat" part often includes condition or completeness, rather than well made design I think.
-I bought a 1985 44 cutter for $65k. By the time I had it done I had $115k in it... and 2 years of work.
-That is typical for most boats I had.


So I think one has to revise how much you can buy a boat for by adding $ to completion in order to fit your budget.
For a 35 ft Blue water boat at $20k budget, you may need someone to give you a boat and also hand you about $20k with it.
Why does it have to be either or. You talk as if the budget to buy is all you wish to put into the boat and yet you spent 65K and then put an additional 50K in it over 2 years. So your 'much of a boat' entry price was $65K for a 44' machine, then added $50K to that over two years and (apparently, you didn't really say so) have a nice 44' boat that you know and love.

I am finding a ton of boats from 34'-38' for under $25K that are in the water and apparently being lived in / used. Now I understand that my best bud claims that if I bought that I would have to invest an additional $125K to even be able to get it splashed but really, your experience says otherwise. It certainly sounds as if you got a solid machine for well under the 'equivalent new' and if you performed repairs in the correct order, I would assume that it could sail before the two years were up.

So why do I need someone to hand me $20K and a free boat to get there?

NOT that I am discouraging anyone from doing so!

Quote:
Or you need to find a basic boat that is solid with good sails, no defects. Add nothing and live like you're cruising in 1960; no refrig, no gps, row your dingy, navigate by charts, hand pull your anchor, get water ashore, etc. Which is entirely possible to do.
No, I need to find a good boat and then this month add an anchor winch (if that is missing) and then next month add a GPS (if one is missing) and then the month after add a dingy (if one is missing). I am an engineer so I make lists of tasks, then prioritize the tasks, then DO the tasks. So if I am going to live on hook the dingy will be first and the anchor winch next!!!

I think folks with too much money can't live and be comfortable until they have the floating Mercedes all tricked out and ready to step aboard.

I bought A 10 year old Mercury Grand Marque with 68K miles on it in STELLAR condition for $4000. It was 10 years old. Nobody would pay more than $4000 for it so that what it was put on the market for. It was owned by three "old people" and cared for well, driven to church and back. I could have paid $50K for a new one but I didn't. I did NOT get a $50K car, I got a VERY NICE ten year old $4000 car with 68K miles on it, which I have driven for 6 years now and enjoyed the heck out of.

So my friend's opinion to the contrary, real boats exist that people have loved and cared for and now need to sell, and they are old, and the owners aren't going to get new prices for. But they are nice boats. Sure, they need stuff done to them. But unlike my friend, I could care less if they are "like new". I want a comfortable boat that I can live on and enjoy. As I have told every one, it has to float, motor and sail, RIGHT NOW. And I am not going to buy a boat that is on the hard and needs $50K to splash. If it won't do all those things I'm not interested. Beyond that if it is truly trashed I'm not interested. I'm looking for my Mercury Marque on the water, old, lots of miles, well loved and cared for.

They do exist. And I expect to spend money keeping it floating, sailing and motoring.

And well loved and cared for.
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Old 30-05-2015, 16:41   #68
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
...I am finding a ton of boats from 34'-38' for under $25K that are in the water and apparently being lived in / used...
Pretty sure you don't have as many friends as you think you do. You seem to have many strong opinions based on inexperience and overconfidence. If "...in the water and apparently being lived in / used..." is your yardstick for seaworthiness and desirability, then I'm sure you'll find many suitable candidates to fit your budget. Just know that such a purchase comes with certain "obligations" that always lead to spending money when the unexpected (by only you) occurs.
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Old 30-05-2015, 16:42   #69
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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And that is the right thing to do if you have $115K to buy a boat.
It is in relationship to people who are all proud that they got a boat for $30k and then spent 2 years to refit it, only to at the end of those 2 years to have spent $115k!!!!!

I didn't have $115k, but I've got good credit and the interest rate wasn't worth not getting to sail for years while refitting a worn out boat!
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Old 30-05-2015, 16:52   #70
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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It is in relationship to people who are all proud that they got a boat for $30k and then spent 2 years to refit it, only to at the end of those 2 years to have spent $115k!!!!!

I didn't have $115k, but I've got good credit and the interest rate wasn't worth not getting to sail for years while refitting a worn out boat!
Yep, good job.
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Old 30-05-2015, 16:57   #71
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Pretty sure you don't have as many friends as you think you do.
Pretty sure there are folks that where not being their friend is not a great loss.

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Old 30-05-2015, 17:16   #72
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

This whole thing has gone beyond me. Sounds like a bunch of kids?
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Old 30-05-2015, 17:56   #73
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

There is more than one path up the mountain.
Your plan sounds reasonable to me. My first liveaboard (30 years ago) was a Passport 42'. Loved that boat. Very comfortable with a wife and child. I paid a bit for her but got great terms with no down. Owner was tired of paying moorage and not using her.

There are "steals" out there especially in this economy. People who were hit hard by the recession (as I was) and have been paying moorage for a couple of years trying to sell. But the "steals" are few and far between. All that glitters is not gold.

Some of the best deals I've seen are boats that have something wrong with them that would cost a lot to have professionally fixed but that you can do yourself if you are willing to work hard and diligently.

I have gone over this thread in detail but do understand the dangers of getting into something that floats & sails and ending up with a nightmare. Seen that many times.

Pay the money for a good surveyor and mechanic to check out whatever you find. Many surveyors and mechanics are not good.

I sailed my current boat up from Seattle and then spent over two more years working on it (still sailing and floating). I finally put her on the hard to finish her. Not because she didn't float.

The best of luck
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Old 30-05-2015, 17:57   #74
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Meant "have not" gone over this thread in detail.
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Old 30-05-2015, 19:56   #75
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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There are "steals" out there especially in this economy. People who were hit hard by the recession (as I was) and have been paying moorage for a couple of years trying to sell. But the "steals" are few and far between. All that glitters is not gold.

Some of the best deals I've seen are boats that have something wrong with them that would cost a lot to have professionally fixed but that you can do yourself if you are willing to work hard and diligently.
I think part of the problem here is the fixation on 'steals'. I don't need to steal anything. There are a TON of boats out there. Boats that the owners took care of them. Boats that the owners are getting old and just need to get out.

A TON of boats.
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