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Old 29-05-2015, 08:23   #16
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
You know the ONE THING that keeps the 36 off my list is the lack of the aft quarter berth. It perplexes me that they did that.

There are a lot out there and yep, nice boats.

Lack of an aft berth pretty much keeps any such boat off my list. It must have an aft cabin or an aft quarter birth. I lived full time in an RV and I can tell you from experience, "converting" a seat into a berth every night. long term, is a non-starter. I expect to sail alone much of the time, but if I do have a guest - my kid(s) for example, I must have a ready made place for them (or me).
As a solo sailor I actually like the lack of quarter berth, but I can see where you are coming from.

The later models of the 36 (late 1981 onwards I think) actually DID come with a quarter berth on the starboard side, so worth keeping an eye open.
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Old 29-05-2015, 10:33   #17
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

If your willing to do the work and or learn how to do the work there is nothing to stop you from cruising on a 30 + footer with nothing more than ten grand to start. I've bought boats cheap got them to a livable condition and did the rest as I went When she is sea worthy go sailing and Finnish the rest of the work whilst your underway. There many people that won't get underway because this or that is not perfect. I see so called cruisers in pristine boats over 80,000 But rarely put the sails up, just motor up and down the intercoastal.
25 years ago I started out with a 21' Columbia mkII Searned to fix her up and 4 boats later I have a pearson 424 ketch appraised @ 70K I bought her for 30k I don't know how much I've put into her since, as I figure that's the cost of living on the sea. I do know I make less than 20k a year for the past 8 years.
Do you want opulence and strife ...aka anchors...or do you want a free life of adventure. Life happens no matter how much money you spend to control it. I've rescued more "cruisers" with fancy boats in my travels than shoestring cruisers.
PEACE LUV & HAPPINESS
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Old 29-05-2015, 11:40   #18
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

I went shopping with a day-sailor budget and ended up with a well found coastal cruiser because the owner was ready to move-on and accepted my low but fair offer. Look for a "good old boat" that somebody else has upgraded or at least spent money to maintain. Try not to fall in love until after the survey. Be ready to make due with less than state-of-the art equipment, and don't look down your nose at old but functional gear. My boat has the same windex, knotlog and depth sounder I sailed with on a brand new blue water racer in 1977! Stuff works well, and I run my chart plotter on my Mac (secured to the nav stand). Signet refurbished my instruments for @ $150. I don't expect this boat to cross oceans, but it's perfect to provide me a platform to spend as much time sailing as possible, learn, build skills and confidence and enjoy my time on the water.
Take your time and good hunting!
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Old 29-05-2015, 11:56   #19
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
Having been watching the forums for months, I understand that everyone has their own budget for buying, and given a budget they then define (in their own head) 'much of a boat' as in 'You can't get much of a boat for less than $XYZ'.

Given that I had this 'you ain't gonna get much of a boat' dropped into another of my threads, I thought it might be fun to actually provide a place where we could all write out how much we spent (ball park will do, lie if you wanna) on a boat and our beliefs about 'it just isn't useful to go out looking unless you have $XYZ'.

'You can't get much of a boat unless you can spend $XYZ'.

Please keep this fun folks. It is only meant to allow us all to see the range of notions out there. If you can, perhaps you could also show a couple of links to boats that you could really buy if you wanted and you think represent 'anything less than this ain't worth buying'.

Since this is a real concern for those in the market, and since I am in the market, and since this 'not much of a boat for less' was dropped in my lap, I will be happy to start the thread with my own situation.

As it happens, my budget is $20K+/-. So what I am looking for is:

1) 60s-70s era boat.
2) 33-40 feet
3) An offshore cruiser (properly prepared).

So on my short list is:

1) The 'Cherubini hunters' - 33,34 and 37.
2) 35 Morgan
3) Irwin 34 Citation
4) Islander 36/37
5) Dickerson 36
6) Morgan West Indies 38
7) Seidleman 37

I have found all of these for under 25K.

Hunter Cherubini Sailboat 1981

So let's have fun with this. And while this is all tongue in cheek, it is also useful to demonstrate that what would be filtered right out by a guy with a half million budget, would be actively sought after by us bottom feeders. And given that, saying 'not much of a boat for less than $xyz' only speaks to your personal budget.

Let the fun begin.
Good idea to have fun with it. I think the fun went south in a few posts.

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Old 29-05-2015, 12:26   #20
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Having expended much blood, sweat & tears in this area I am reminded of something I was told by a wise man.
When it comes to working on boats:
If you think it will take a day it will take a week.
If you think it will take a week it will take a month.
If you think it will take a month it will take a year.
Good luck. I don't regret any of it.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:38   #21
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by magellanyachts View Post
Having expended much blood, sweat & tears in this area I am reminded of something I was told by a wise man.
When it comes to working on boats:
If you think it will take a day it will take a week.
If you think it will take a week it will take a month.
If you think it will take a month it will take a year.
Good luck. I don't regret any of it.
That wise man must have been my husband. That has been our experience as well.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:40   #22
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Good idea to have fun with it. I think the fun went south in a few posts.

Naw, still fun. It was always about opinions and well.. you know the expression. So this post is about actually encouraging those opinions.

If ya think ya can't go sailing without a 200K boat, say so, it's fine with me.

I don't really have a choice you see. Either I don't go at all or I go low. So I have to carefully shop for the best I can find, but I absolutely expect to find a very nice (to me) little boat out there to fit my budget.

It truly is all about expectations, and budget sets expectations. I doubt I'll find a watermaker on any boat I will buy, but I may very well install one a year down the road.

Like that.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:46   #23
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by magellanyachts View Post
Having expended much blood, sweat & tears in this area I am reminded of something I was told by a wise man.
When it comes to working on boats:
If you think it will take a day it will take a week.
If you think it will take a week it will take a month.
If you think it will take a month it will take a year.
Good luck. I don't regret any of it.
Lol, the rule is take the constant and double it, then up the unit by one.

1 hour = 2 days
3 days = 6 weeks

etc.
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Old 29-05-2015, 12:54   #24
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
Lol, the rule is take the constant and double it, then up the unit by one.

1 hour = 2 days
3 days = 6 weeks

etc.
That's life, just more so with boats.
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Old 29-05-2015, 13:04   #25
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

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That's life, just more so with boats.
Being an engineer, I find it useful to have a list of tasks. When one hits a snag, switch to the next till it hits a snag, then switch to the next. Given enough tasks queued up, one can make pretty steady progress on something worthwhile.

And sometimes kicking back and enjoying the beautiful sunset is the most important task.
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Old 29-05-2015, 13:24   #26
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

18 years ago we started looking for one specific boat. We saw many horrible examples of neglect during the 12 months of looking. We found a good one and had it surveyed and it didn't pass muster. The owner lied about the fridge working and there were a number of other deal-breakers. But before the survey we went and looked at new ones and neither of us could justify literally double the price of new one. A week later we found "our keeper." Extremely good shape for a good price. We know a lot of friends with the same boat but the newer versions. As I began tinkering on our boat systems and learned to be a diesel mechanic, electrician and plumber, I thought of the new boats and realized that in a few years they were all gonna have to find out what I had already learned: maintenance is an ongoing task that can be approached with either fear & loathing or enjoyment. I chose the latter. Our boat is now 29 years old and the newer ones are between 15 and 20 anyway with all the attendant issues. We got a great deal and have sailed the heck out of our boat because we spend the time & effort necessary to keep stuff working right so we can use it whenever we want to.

Regardless of the price, regardless of the interior layout, most all boats of that size have SO very much in common that we all face the same challenges of maintaining systems.

The internet has made it monumentally easier to learn how to do stuff and avoid reinventing the wheel.

People keep tryin', though.
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Old 29-05-2015, 14:51   #27
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
Naw, still fun. It was always about opinions and well.. you know the expression. So this post is about actually encouraging those opinions.

If ya think ya can't go sailing without a 200K boat, say so, it's fine with me.

I don't really have a choice you see. Either I don't go at all or I go low. So I have to carefully shop for the best I can find, but I absolutely expect to find a very nice (to me) little boat out there to fit my budget.

It truly is all about expectations, and budget sets expectations. I doubt I'll find a watermaker on any boat I will buy, but I may very well install one a year down the road.

Like that.
That's the spirit. My little boat suits me, is it! I'm not even sure I would like ones I can't afford.

A row boat may make some happy. Less complex. Maybe happier than those with high dollar boats.

Happiness is not necessarily the size of what you have.
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:29   #28
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

I feel lucky to have snagged our 1976 Albin 25 for $6k CDN 2 years ago, and spent $1.5 K on elective electrical upgrade. So it can be done!
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:29   #29
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
LOL, anyone saying that hasn't looked at new boats. I can take an older 38' boat and trick it out nice, and put $100K in the bank for the cost of a new one.

There is another old saying out there, 'the value drops 40 pct when you sail it off the lot'.

All of which makes no difference if one has the money and wants the new one.

I don't.
I hear ya with new boats. The time spent and the sweat equity in making an older boat your own are truly worthy investments.

On the other end of the spectrum though, you meet some good folks in boatyards who have been there approaching a decade, still trying to get things sorted!
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:41   #30
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Re: Much of a boat - just for fun

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
You know the ONE THING that keeps the 36 off my list is the lack of the aft quarter berth. It perplexes me that they did that.

There are a lot out there and yep, nice boats.

Lack of an aft berth pretty much keeps any such boat off my list. It must have an aft cabin or an aft quarter birth. I lived full time in an RV and I can tell you from experience, "converting" a seat into a berth every night. long term, is a non-starter. I expect to sail alone much of the time, but if I do have a guest - my kid(s) for example, I must have a ready made place for them (or me).
Howdy.

What follows is written in a truly friendly voice, with respect and with the sole intent to continue a friendly discussion.

I am not writing this to prove you wrong. I am simply offering a different view of the same topic we are discussing. You can have a different view (and you do).
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As I recall, you have not yet done much or any sailing on a sailboat (I remember the Navy time you mentioned in another thread). Is that correct? Please confirm or correct me if I am wrong. I may have you mistaken with another new member who has a similar desire for an inexpensive boat, etc.

IF that is the case, you might not have much time sleeping inside a midsize sailboat (about 35 feet) or smaller.

As I see it, the lack of a quarter berth is no great loss.

In fact, on many of the smaller boats I would prefer a boat without a quarter berth, if I were looking at the lower priced boats which you are looking for today.

Why?

In the following I will try to describe this from a "single older man" POV (Point of View). I will assume you wish to live aboard the boat and will mostly be by yourself (with possibly a visitor or two on occasion) and as I recall from other threads, you wish to spend most of your time at anchor, rather than in a marina.

1. The quarter berth on most boats is used for storage of junk (like a garage)

2. The quarter berth on most boats has low 'headroom' and so can be like a "coffin" to some people.

3. A quarter berth is something you have to enter feet first. Conversely, the mid cabin settee is easy to enter or exit by simply rolling to one's side.

4. A mid-cabin (saloon) settee (with lee cloth) can be more comfortable while on a passage. Less noise from winches or people in the cockpit on night watch.

5. A mid cabin (saloon) "double" can be more roomy and much more like a double bed when at anchor in a marina slip. I have seen some that look very roomy and appealing as a place to sleep.

6. A Vberth can be more comfortable when at anchor, because the front hatch can be kept open, the boat will point to the wind, and that fresh air will flow into the space (the forward cabin) keeping the sleeping people cool. Conversely, the quarter berth may have no ports, no hatch, and be very stuffy and hot AND confining.

7. If the boat does not have a quarter berth, it is because the designer used that space for another purpose, such as a large cockpit locker where a water maker, genset, sails, fenders, outboard, folding bikes, or similar gear can be stored or mounted.

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In sum, I would not eliminate a boat because it did not have a quarter berth. I would likely look at as preferable for some smaller boats.
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