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Old 26-11-2015, 05:49   #16
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I suspect there is also a marketing aspect involved.
Marinas are buisnesses. If you can afford a 5yr old 35' boat, you probably have the money to keep it up. The guy who buys a 40yr old 25' boat for $1000 to live on...is probably scaring off other much more valuable customers.
If so, valhalla... I'd call the "marina managers" fools not knowing what marketing means... I relate this (provocatively) statement to the sales proposals you can get for buying whole marinas.

In no other country exist such a huge number of sales offers. I dont know one single marina in Mediterranean Sea or Baltic sea which is for sales...

There are some websites which reflect this market situatoin...
All Marinas for Sale in the United States, Caribbean, Canada, and Mexico - MarinasForSale.com
Marina Realty Group - Listings
Marinas for Sale | BusinessBroker.net

If there is such dramatically situation, e.g. as we can read here that some have a waiting list of 6 years in some overbooked marinas, it would be worth, that people looking for a "living on a boat" place first build up a community of "equals by spirit" and then buy such a marina.... Some arent very costly, astonishingly.

E.g. paying 1 Mio. US dollar for a facility structure with 50 places, thats just 20,000 US dollars for every co-owner... and its not just the box... a fully infrastructure is delivered with, e.g. club house for sailing club, plus guest house for accomodation of tourists, crane and slips etc. ...

I would not wait... if I'd been in the situatoin to live in USA.
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Old 26-11-2015, 08:01   #17
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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If so, valhalla... I'd call the "marina managers" fools not knowing what marketing means... I relate this (provocatively) statement to the sales proposals you can get for buying whole marinas.

In no other country exist such a huge number of sales offers. I dont know one single marina in Mediterranean Sea or Baltic sea which is for sales...

There are some websites which reflect this market situatoin...
All Marinas for Sale in the United States, Caribbean, Canada, and Mexico - MarinasForSale.com
Marina Realty Group - Listings
Marinas for Sale | BusinessBroker.net

If there is such dramatically situation, e.g. as we can read here that some have a waiting list of 6 years in some overbooked marinas, it would be worth, that people looking for a "living on a boat" place first build up a community of "equals by spirit" and then buy such a marina.... Some arent very costly, astonishingly.

E.g. paying 1 Mio. US dollar for a facility structure with 50 places, thats just 20,000 US dollars for every co-owner... and its not just the box... a fully infrastructure is delivered with, e.g. club house for sailing club, plus guest house for accomodation of tourists, crane and slips etc. ...

I would not wait... if I'd been in the situatoin to live in USA.
You are free to call them whatever you want. The rest of your response means little. From what I've seen a large percentage of med marinas are owned or heavily subsidized by the govt meaning they have to play by govt rules. In the USA, I would guess upwards of 80-90% are privately owned (there are some govt owned/subsidized but a minority). It's pretty rare for a govt entity to go bankrupt no matter how much money they lose. Even if you are correct, that's the right of an owner to go after the market they want.

If I was going into the buisness, I would probably focus on large and new boats. That translates into higher slip rates and the guys who can aford a newish 35-60ft boat is probably also farming out a lot of the maintenance work.
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Old 26-11-2015, 08:43   #18
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Marinas are buisnesses. If you can afford a 5yr old 35' boat, you probably have the money to keep it up. The guy who buys a 40yr old 25' boat for $1000 to live on...is probably scaring off other much more valuable customers.
This is so true.

At my marina, Confederation Basin Kingston ON, there are a few "hillbilly houseboats" alongside the well kept yachts. The tomato plants, lawn furniture, empty beer bottles and country music overflow onto the docks 24/7. Their "borg" ships give no illusion of seaworthiness, and my guess is a small aramada of bilge pumps labour endlessly below just to keep these semi-floating rat traps off the bottom.
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Old 26-11-2015, 09:07   #19
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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Currently, our inventory contains no Marinas for Sale on the United States West Coast, California, Oregon, Alaska, Washington
I looked at all the marinas for sale in my area, didn't take long.
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Old 26-11-2015, 09:18   #20
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

California owns all the tide land in the state, none is privately held. Marinas may own the docks, some do, but the land belongs to the state which leases it to the marina operator for up to 50 years. 10% livaboards is the general rule (with a 50% up charge on the slip rate), I know of no marina that officially has a higher number, but as pointed out above, many Marinas allow more if the tennants are trustworthy and quiet. Most have a 25 year old boat rule; again, if the boat is is great shape, they will make an exception. Wooden boats (if allowed) are often asked to have a professional out of water survey if over ten years old. And the 'boat' must be self propelled, so no barges, etc., unless grandfathered. Length requirements vary, 30 to 35 generally.
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Old 26-11-2015, 09:33   #21
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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California owns all the tide land in the state, none is privately held. Marinas may own the docks, some do, but the land belongs to the state which leases it to the marina operator for up to 50 years. .........................
I know that all the land in Florida from the mean high tide mark and lower is public land. I think this is the same as your reference to "tide land" in your post. There were some older marinas that had "grandfathered" ownership of the underwater land at their docks, but they are rare if any still exist. I'm not familiar with all states, but I would not think that California is unique when considering the government regulation of land up to the mean high tide level and all navigable waters.
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Old 26-11-2015, 11:57   #22
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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Thanks for the info Skip_JayR. That aside, me thinks that most of the "rules" & new laws in CA (and elsewhere), are funnels designed to route $, nefariously, into someone's pocket.
spot on!
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Old 26-11-2015, 12:18   #23
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

The marinas here I have experience with. Some require a min of 15 gal holding tank or composting head. Others just require the extra liveaboard fees be paid. That's in Puget sound
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Old 26-11-2015, 12:31   #24
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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Although I have never experienced such a policy on the US East Coast, I have read posts here on the Cruisers Forum referring to a length requirement (such as 35') on the US West Coast at some marinas. I've also heard of limitations set for the age of boats allowed at some West Coast marinas.

I recognize that there are land-based home owners associations or community ordinances that subject people to similar restrictions, - size of a house, paint colors, the height of grass in the lawn, the parking of RV's, but I'm disturbed to see that boats would be allowed of a certain size as long as no one's living aboard. ...or even more disturbing to hear of age restrictions. There are numerous opulent, beautiful vintage boats docked or underway in my cruising range. I can't imagine them not approved in a marina.

I known many, and myself included at earlier times, who have lived well on sound and neatly kept boats under 35' and I'm now aboard a well kept 43 year old boat.

What's the verdict for those that are familiar with these restrictions? Are they a common policy? Are the policies selectively enforced? Can a live-aboard on a well kept 30' boat rent a slip most anywhere in California as they can on the East Coast? Are these restrictions spreading?
We checked into several marinas in the Long Beach and San Diego areas for live aboard when we visited our kids in July. Several of them did have a length requirement of 35 feet. None of them mentioned anything about age restrictions but all wanted a photo of the boat and had verbiage in their agreements about them being in sound operating order.
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Old 26-11-2015, 19:59   #25
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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You're not from the Netherlands?

You're confusing several rules here; what you wrote does not apply to sail- and motorboats or 'pleasure crafts' but "woonboten" (house boats) - which are 'floating houses' that can't sail, they need to be towed into place - and/or "varende woonschepen", the large barges etc. you mentioned.

As far as I know, with the exception of the doomsday preppers, very few people worry about drowning. And for the preppers, I think zombies are much higher on the list then drowning

But ... this is all very off-topic, since the OP is in the US and probably isn't planning on buying a houseboat in Amsterdam

I am reading this thread with interest tho! Who knew my boat would be deemed "too small" in some US marina's! Poor Lizzy Belle

Greetings from Rotterdam, where I can live aboard my 29' sailboat in a marina with .. educated guess here ... 35% liveaboards (more during the winter season)
Hi Lizzy Belle
I would appreciate it if you would tell me the cost of living aboard in Rotterdam as I would like to visit Holland for a few months
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Old 26-11-2015, 20:59   #26
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

@bustermaw

For a full year - 12 months in the water, 29' boat, luxury marina, I pay around $1700 including liveaboard fee, water, showers etc. but excluding electricity.

But you're looking for a temporary slip I assume - that would cost more per month. Exact prices depending on which marina and boat size, obviously.
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Old 26-11-2015, 23:20   #27
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards fo Liveaboard Vessels

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@bustermaw

For a full year - 12 months in the water, 29' boat, luxury marina, I pay around $1700 including liveaboard fee, water, showers etc. but excluding electricity.

But you're looking for a temporary slip I assume - that would cost more per month. Exact prices depending on which marina and boat size, obviously.
Thanks for that Lizzy Belle
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Old 27-11-2015, 01:46   #28
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards for Liveaboard Vessels

In Washington the state DNR owns the land and leases the space to the marina operators. The DNR dictates the 10% live aboard limit.
They have spent some effort removing derelict boats, but mostly the live aboard rules are coming from Olympia by lawmakers that have little or no knowledge of boats but influenced by waterfront property owners and others.
Tidelands refers not only to the shoreline, but also to the land that the dock pilings attach to and the docks are floating above.
Live aboard restrictions came to Washington in the 90's I believe, but at least there are no size or age restrictions yet. Some marinas prefer you not to have a flush toilet, but they don't require a portapotty or compost yet.
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Old 27-11-2015, 08:46   #29
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards for Liveaboard Vessels

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In Washington the state DNR owns the land and leases the space to the marina operators. The DNR dictates the 10% live aboard limit.
They have spent some effort removing derelict boats, but mostly the live aboard rules are coming from Olympia by lawmakers that have little or no knowledge of boats but influenced by waterfront property owners and others.
Tidelands refers not only to the shoreline, but also to the land that the dock pilings attach to and the docks are floating above.
Live aboard restrictions came to Washington in the 90's I believe, but at least there are no size or age restrictions yet. Some marinas prefer you not to have a flush toilet, but they don't require a portapotty or compost yet.
Ken could you please show me a link to the rules from Olympia that restrict the number of liveaboard in a marina in Washington my last marina had at least a 40% liveaboard ratio and was run by a city government. The current one ( private) has well over half and the marina my dad lives in is at least 25% liveaboard. They are all in Washington state. A lot of marinas will tell you that its the state but actually it is insurance. The cost goes up with a higher liveaboard ratio.
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Old 27-11-2015, 16:15   #30
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Re: Marinas Requiring Standards for Liveaboard Vessels

Yes this is all about 'preserving the neighborhood'. Most marinas get built in upscale housing areas and want the marina to reflect that, lots of shiny new boats belonging to 'people like us'. But if you are not one of them why would you want to live there? Look for somewhere that welcomes 'people like you'!
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