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Old 04-11-2014, 06:30   #46
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

And people who complain about a thread actually end up bumping it. Ive got a lot of good info from this thread. We are leaving the peoples republic of kalifornia and don't want to pay their taxes after we are gone.


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Old 04-11-2014, 09:40   #47
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Your brother Didn't fight and lose. He sent in the info, didn't hear back and made the legal mistake of thinking not hearing back was the same as being exempted from the tax....which anyone dealing with the law should be aware isn't the case. Not on a speeding ticket or tax bill. Then his attorney advised him not to fight due to the costs...it had already went to a lean since he ignored it...that isn't fighting and losing. That is hoping and wishful thinking.

It sucks for your brother no doubt but to use this example to set policy and rules for others is bogus and not fair to people looking for the facts. I've been through the process with 3 boats now and had no problem avoiding the tax I didn't owe. Oh sure they TRY to get the tax and then tell you "you won't get out of it"...that's what Government hacks do...but if you know your rights, stand up for them, and follow up and don't just assume the issue is cleared up, the State of California isn't above the law...but they do count on people not knowing or not wanting to fight for their rights.
Your brother Didn't fight and lose
HOW does he fight the lien that was preventing him from buying his house in Florida? He did not discover the lien until the escrow company brought it to his attention. The cost of clearing the lien would have been many times the cost of paying the disputed bill. WHAT should he have done?

He sent in the info, didn't hear back and made the legal mistake of thinking not hearing back was the same as being exempted from the tax
He was responding to their letter saying "prove to us you were not a California resident and your boat was not in California." He sent that information and thought he had proved his non-residence. WHAT should he have done?

The general problem with the California boat property tax is that someone who is not conversant with California tax policy and law gets snared.

Look at it from my brothers perspective:
- he never owned a boat while living in California
- he sold his California home and moved out of California
- at the time he moved out of California he had not even thought about buying a boat
- he sold his California vehicle
- he established a residence in Washington
- he bought a boat in Washington and took that boat to Mexico while only being in California for a couple months
- he also spent a month in Canada and a week in Oregon
- he then moved to Florida and established residence there

WHY would he ever even consider that he might be liable for California property tax on his boat. WHY would that thought enter his mind? He KNEW he no longer had any legal relationship to California. He had not been a California resident for more than 8-months at the time he bought the boat in Washington

WHY would he even be thinking about California at the time he, as a Washington Resident, bought a Washington boat in Washington?

Should he have also considered he might owe taxes in Canada and Oregon where he also visited?

Bottom Line is that he had no reason to suspect he owed tax to California.

Bottom Line is that when he moved out of California he made the same assumption any normal person would make - he had no further legal or tax obligations to California.

That is the problem the OP was concerned about.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:05   #48
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

all property tax in kali is COUNTY and or local....is regulated and imposed by county
each is a lil different.
you best add ventura and other ca counties to this list.
when you leave a place of residence of over 6 months, you need to register your stuff in the new county and advise the old one with your proof in hand( new location tax assessment or bill) to the taxman's office, just like in 1950's, as this is the only part of taxation NOT computerized...
btw--it was explained to me that the county and local property taxes assessed on owners of boats are being charged taxes on th e bit of wtf under your keel. it is not against the boat, but good luck proving that, as they WILL lien the boat if delinquent.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:40   #49
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by NewportGuy View Post
I hope that those in charge if CF will close this thread. It's become an ill informed and useless rant. Several of us have pointed out the recourse available to the OP. If the facts are as he reported them, he has no 2014 property tax liability to California for his boat. Let's move on to other topics and make better use of this forum.


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That's how you think it works.

The reality is, for a lot of people, it doesn't work like that. This thread is where they are discussing it. You are more than welcome to click onto another thread.

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Old 04-11-2014, 11:06   #50
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

"when you leave a place of residence of over 6 months, you need to register your stuff in the new county and advise the old one with your proof in hand( new location tax assessment or bill) to the taxman's office,"

I've moved many times to many states including into and out of California several times. I've never, ever, had to tell the state I moved out of that I am now living in another state.

What would my brother tell California other than what he did tell them
- I sold my California car and house
- I live in Washington
- here are my marina bills, insurance bills, payments to a post office box from Washington and Florida
- Here are my Passport documents from several other countries
- Here is my TIP from Mexico
- Here are my marian and fuel receipts from another country

He NEVER OWNED a boat in California and never thought about a boat while in California. He was not a California resident and was never going to return to California when he bought the boat so why should he have to prove to California that he was not liable for tax?

- he did not live in California
- the boat only visited California in transit to another country

The major point that the California supporters are missing is WHY should a boat owner have to prove to California that the boat they bought in another state as a resident of that state is not a California boat?

I bought my boat in Washington State, visited Canada, Oregon, and California. We then moved on to Mexico. California never asked me to prove why I did not owe money to California for boat property tax. I too used to be a California resident.

I think the difference was that my brother, while living in Washington, Mexico, and Florida was receiving income from investments held and managed by Bank of America in California. Somehow, that caused California to consider my brother a resident. BofA headquarters in in North Carolina but my brothers account was in a California branch.

My wife and I had investment accounts with BofA in Washington State while our boat was in California but that did not trigger a property tax bill for us.

Additionally, he kept his California drivers license until he arrived in Florida.

WHY would it be expected that an ordinary citizen know that holding investments in a BofA branch in California would make them liable for property tax on a boat that had only been in California for a couple months.

???
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:13   #51
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Payable by the buyer...not the out of State seller.
WA State tried to argue that attending the Seattle Boat show created a ,"nexus" that made you then have to act as the WA Tax man on all sales into the State....they backed down quick when the Seattle Biat show started losing vendors. Aka....they got a political talking too and spanken.
Payable by the buyer, but must be collected by the seller!
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:14   #52
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"when you leave a place of residence of over 6 months, you need to register your stuff in the new county and advise the old one with your proof in hand( new location tax assessment or bill) to the taxman's office,"

I've moved many times to many states including into and out of California several times. I've never, ever, had to tell the state I moved out of that I am now living in another state.

What would my brother tell California other than what he did tell them
- I sold my California car and house
- I live in Washington
- here are my marina bills, insurance bills, payments to a post office box, and Passport documents from another country

He NEVER OWNED a boat in California and never thought about a boat while in California. He was not a California resident and was never going to return to California when he bought the boat so why should he have to prove to California that he was not liable for tax?

- he did not live in California
- the boat only visited California in transit to another country

The major point that the California supporters are missing is WHY should a boat owner have to prove to California that the boat they bought in another state as a resident of that state is not a California boat?

I bought my boat in Washington State, visited Canada, Oregon, and California. We then moved on to Mexico. California never asked me to prove why I did not owe money to California for boat property tax. I too used to be a California resident.

I think the difference was that my brother, while living in Washington, Mexico, and Florida was receiving income from investments held and managed by Bank of America in California. Somehow, that caused California to consider my brother a resident. BofA headquarters in in North Carolina but my brothers account was in a California branch.

WHY would it be expected that an ordinary citizen know that holding investments in a BofA branch in California would make them liable for property tax on a boat that had only been in California for a couple months.

???
yep... it's ridiculous....
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:14   #53
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

I sold a sailboat and a house in Minnesota. Then drove both my cars (wife and I) to Orlando, FL and bought a house in Orlando. Then I registered both my cars in Florida.

What taxes do I owe California?
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:16   #54
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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I sold a sailboat and a house in Minnesota. Then drove both my cars (wife and I) to Orlando, FL and bought a house in Orlando. Then I registered both my cars in Florida.

What taxes do I owe California?
You will be getting a Tax bill from Kalifornia soon... because you mentioned the word......
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:30   #55
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Reading this thread is like rereading "Alice in Wonderland."

The sorry part is that many (not all) Californians that leave and establish a new residency get involved in local politics and try to remake their new state into California.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:49   #56
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Take deep breathes.
The solution is simple, prove that you moved your boat! The first letter is computer generated when the computer discovers that you didn't pay the tax.

Years ago I had financed the purchase of my boat with a 5 year loan with a balloon payment. After I'd refinanced it, California notified me that I hadn't paid any sales tax. A phone conversions with a agent clarified the misunderstanding.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:24   #57
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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[I]

Additionally, he kept his California drivers license until he arrived in Florida.
There is the answer to your question. It is quite reasonable for a state to assume if you have a driver's license in that state you are a resident. One of the things used to determine residency is driver's license. That, vehicle registration, voter registration, bank accounts, mailing address, living quarters are what most states look at. We went through all this in 2012 moving from NC to FL. Also a new state takes your old license.

California law actually requires you to report any change of address to them within 10 days.

So, until he arrived in Florida and established residency there, he was legally a California resident. It's really that simple. The fact he was out of the country is irrelevant, unless he took legal residency in another country and became a non-resident for the US.

So not only did they assume he was a resident. He legally was a California resident. You must be a resident of some state as a US resident. You don't lose California residency just by planning to move elsewhere.

Then, as a California resident there is a burden of proof on him then to prove the boat isn't a California boat and taxable in the state.

It's not simple but the laws are fairly straightforward. For many of these circumstances, I'd advise an attorney. We moved in 2012 and we used both a Florida and an NC attorney. We notified NC of our move on the day made. We got FL driver's license, FL bank account, FL car registration, FL Voter's Registration, FL Auto Insurance, FL Mail address, FL residency in two days. But there were very substantial tax consequences if we were subject to NC taxes during the next month.

Often moves result in both the new state and the old state claiming you're a resident, so it's essential all steps are taken if there is a tax issue.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:30   #58
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Reading this thread is like rereading "Alice in Wonderland."

The sorry part is that many (not all) Californians that leave and establish a new residency get involved in local politics and try to remake their new state into California.
That's an interesting assertion.

Do you have any links to news articles or anything at all to indicate this is happening?
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:53   #59
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

California has gone mad (as we all know)
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Old 04-11-2014, 13:05   #60
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
That's an interesting assertion.

Do you have any links to news articles or anything at all to indicate this is happening?
Emmett Watson used to regularly write columns for the Seattle PI on the CA invasion.
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He was the founder and leader of "Lesser Seattle," a parody of Greater Seattle, Inc., which advocated several schemes for Seattle's civic improvement and development that Watson considered ill-advised. Feeling that the influx of outsiders, primarily from California, was ruining the city, Watson often published tongue-in-cheek columns suggesting ways to make visitors to Seattle feel unwelcome. He also invented a fictional organization called Keep the Bastards Out (KBO) that fought against the influx of newcomers to the Puget Sound area from out of state.
Emmett Watson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not saying I agree,just FYI as you asked.
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