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Old 02-11-2014, 13:05   #16
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

As I have said in the past, my boat is in Florida, I live in Cali, maybe not for long, but dam the weather is nice! Especially the summer. In my experience. Home port, where I live makes no difference, it's were the boat lives, . Been through this with two boats now. which seems fair. My gut tells me some folks are getting screwed by the LA tax collector.

A bit of a thread hijack, this just came to me, my wife will be retiring in a few years , if we spend more than half the year out in FL( no state income tax) on the boat yet keep a home here in Cali , can I screw Cali out of wasting my tax dollars on the bullet train to nowhere, well not really a bullet train but just a pretty fast train that will be government subsidized for all eternity. More simply. Not pay Cali income tax.


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Old 02-11-2014, 13:11   #17
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Seems to me you could prove your out of state status with marina and entry receipts from mexico...? What Cal is saying is you have to let them know to move around.... so even if you had went to Arizona they would want to be notified. Isnt that unconstitutional... aren't we supposed to be able to move around the US without notifying anyone? What if it was your car?
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Old 02-11-2014, 15:45   #18
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Tacoma-
it isn't just the Cali way, it is the same way in all the original Colonies and probably every other state by now as well. Every tax department has "triggers" and if your name appears on any of those lists, for any reason, you get a bill. They've all seen and studied pretty much every tax dodge there is, and they really don't care if someone is simply clueless or actively cheating. They've got a list of criteria and if you cross any of them, boom, you get billed. EVERY state knows they can get revenue this way, and pretty much every tax court in the US follows the Napoleonic Code, i.e. you are guilty until proven innocent. That's just the way it is.

Get sloppy with driver's licenses, poll listings, all sorts of lists and you get a bill. Sometimes folks don't know the rules and since there's usually some disruption and distraction while you are moving, they don't check on them. Move into Florida and you'll get a whopping huge surprise titling fee on your car, even if you've owned it for years. Move into NJ? And you won't. Move into some states, and you're required to convert title and license within 90 days. Or, TEN days if you've gotten a job there. Who would think that's going to bite them?

Point being, it may be one small world with McD's and KFC in every port now, but it sure as hell isn't one and the same for everything besides fast food.

And personally, it disappoints the hell out of me that it is US Fast Food Franchises that have spread so well around the world. CocaCola, OK. McBurger? Not so much, we do that so much better without the clowns and crowns.
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Old 02-11-2014, 17:20   #19
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

"A bit of a thread hijack, this just came to me, my wife will be retiring in a few years , if we spend more than half the year out in FL( no state income tax) on the boat yet keep a home here in Cali , can I screw Cali out of wasting my tax dollars"

The California Franchise board has a pretty specific website about determining residence for California income tax purposes:

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/f...esidents.shtml

I think you pay income tax AND property tax to California - they are very aggressive about collecting the money or making your life miserable.

The bullet train is an unstoppable colossus that will waste more money than California has ever wasted and in the end it will be of no value at all. Just smile, bend over, and pay up!
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Old 02-11-2014, 18:59   #20
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Or leave...

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Old 02-11-2014, 19:41   #21
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

A rule to remember....You are until you're not. Your boat is until it isn't. Ok, sounds crazy, but...

You remain a resident of a state until you firmly establish yourself as a resident in another state. It's also possible for more than one state to consider you a resident. But you can't be a "man without a home" or not a resident anywhere.

Same with boat. California considers your marina in California it's home until you establish another place firmly. Other states also may put requirements. I've known people who had to register their boat in three states in one year.

Know the rules. Follow them. Document. Then if you do all that you may still get a bill but just send documentation as to why it's not due. But do not ignore the bill. We have a situation where we'll have a boat docked in San Diego on January 1. However, we've already informed and consulted with the San Diego Tax office and provided them documentation. We may still get a bill but we already know who to contact to get it corrected. Our situation is boat purchased in Washington, registered in Florida although not yet been there, Documented with a Florida address, and in California in transit from Washington to Florida.
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Old 02-11-2014, 20:31   #22
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

We got the same pay the tax letter.
Sent them copies of out mexico check-in paperwork, bank statements for the year showing monthly ATM withdrawals in Mexico and some marina bills. Done...over....no taxes owed. Easy as pie in 2007 and then again on another boat in 2011. What they count on is people panicking and rolling over. But they can not legally collect a use/property tax on a boat that was out of the state for that year....doesn't matter where you residency is...where your home port is, or how bad they want your money. What people confuse is that some jurisdictions base you year in the state by if your are there on a certain day. Then people confuse the sales tax with the use/property tax.

Fais Do Do...get your documents together and you can gt out if this mess....I know many that have...and I know some that caved and just gave them money to make it go away.
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Old 02-11-2014, 21:05   #23
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

As many are for Texas, Utah, etc..

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Old 02-11-2014, 21:23   #24
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Actually its the people with money that are leaving....and my count down clock is running.
The Golden State only has the weather...take that away and will the last person paying more in taxes than they take in free services and handouts please turn off the lights.
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Old 02-11-2014, 21:58   #25
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

I hope that those in charge if CF will close this thread. It's become an ill informed and useless rant. Several of us have pointed out the recourse available to the OP. If the facts are as he reported them, he has no 2014 property tax liability to California for his boat. Let's move on to other topics and make better use of this forum.


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Old 03-11-2014, 00:29   #26
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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Originally Posted by NewportGuy View Post
I hope that those in charge if CF will close this thread. It's become an ill informed and useless rant. Several of us have pointed out the recourse available to the OP. If the facts are as he reported them, he has no 2014 property tax liability to California for his boat. Let's move on to other topics and make better use of this forum.
"Sent them copies of out mexico check-in paperwork, bank statements for the year showing monthly ATM withdrawals in Mexico and some marina bills. Done...over....no taxes owed. Easy as pie in 2007 and then again on another boat in 2011. What they count on is people panicking and rolling over. But they can not legally collect a use/property tax on a boat that was out of the state for that year....doesn't matter where you residency is...where your home port is, or how bad they want your money. What people confuse is that some jurisdictions base you year in the state by if your are there on a certain day. Then people confuse the sales tax with the use/property tax."

Well NO - that does not work as you describe. As I described above, and will do so in more detail here:

As I said my brother documented all the following with California tax authorities:

- sold his California home in spring 1999 and moved to Washington State
- bought the boat in Washington State in Jan 2000
- lived in Washington State thru July 2000
- had a Washington State mailing address for over a year (1999 - 2000)
- had a Washington State cell phone number
- filed Federal Income tax with a Washington State address
- had a Florida mailing address in 2001 to now
- sold his California registered vehicle in 2000 in Washington State
- Documented the boat with hailing port in Washington State
- sent copies of his passport stamps for Canada (2000) and Mexico (2001)
- sent them copies of marina bills in Washington State (2000)
- sent them copies of marina bills in Canada (2000)
- Insurance documents showing the boat was insured for Puget Sound 2000)
- Insurance documents showing the boat was insured for US/Mexican border south to Panama 2000 & 2001
- marina receipts from La Paz, PV, Bara de Navidad (2001)
- Mexican zarpa 2001
- Mexican TIP
- Mexican VISA
- fuel charges in Mexico

In 2002 he received his 2000 - 2001 tax bill while in Florida. He again sent them all the stuff shown above and did not hear another word from them.

When he tried to close on his house in 2003 he discovered the California tax lien that prevented him from buying a house till he cleared the lien. A Florida tax attorney told him it would cost way more to fight the lien than to pay the approximately $3,000 to California.

SO - at least in my brother's case he did fight the tax bill and lost.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:08   #27
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

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they want proof that the boat was somewhere else. Did you offer to send in your Mexican TIP that showed your date of entry?
This is so anti-constitutional and anti-American it makes me sick. They should have to prove the boat was there, not the other way around…. I know, I know, it's taxes. But prove to me you didn't commit that murder last week in LA please … gesh…
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:29   #28
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

NG: I started this thread not to rant, but to advise others who might be planning to do some extended cruising of the possibilities of getting stuck with an unexpected tax bill.

TS: I tried presenting all of your suggested documentation to the assessor supervisor and was told (by the rather arrogant civil servant), "Well, you can appeal if you want, but I can tell you from experience that it won't do you any good!"

Cruisers beware...
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:35   #29
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

The Eagles Hotel California had it right, "You can check out but you can't ever leave".
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:20   #30
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Re: Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post

In 2002 he received his 2000 - 2001 tax bill while in Florida. He again sent them all the stuff shown above and did not hear another word from them.

SO - at least in my brother's case he did fight the tax bill and lost.
Your brother Didn't fight and lose. He sent in the info, didn't hear back and made the legal mistake of thinking not hearing back was the same as being exempted from the tax....which anyone dealing with the law should be aware isn't the case. Not on a speeding ticket or tax bill. Then his attorney advised him not to fight due to the costs...it had already went to a lean since he ignored it...that isn't fighting and losing. That is hoping and wishful thinking.

It sucks for your brother no doubt but to use this example to set policy and rules for others is bogus and not fair to people looking for the facts. I've been through the process with 3 boats now and had no problem avoiding the tax I didn't owe. Oh sure they TRY to get the tax and then tell you "you won't get out of it"...that's what Government hacks do...but if you know your rights, stand up for them, and follow up and don't just assume the issue is cleared up, the State of California isn't above the law...but they do count on people not knowing or not wanting to fight for their rights.
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