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Old 28-12-2015, 11:31   #16
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Ah HA! The memory is not completely gone. Albin 25 should be considered if your passion is not sailing.

1973 Albin 25 Mini Trawler - Aft Cabin Power Boat For Sale
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Old 28-12-2015, 11:45   #17
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Just to emphasize what is meant by small my first boat was 26ft and I have met sevaeral people living on boats that size, at least one of them did a transatlantic. I would also say not just small but simple and old fashioned. Hanked sails, paper charts, basic instruments, minimal electrical system etc. Will not only save money it will help you to learn seamanship. Above all be prepared to learn to do everything yourself and if you can't fix it, don't take it should be the principal. Finding someone to go with could make it more fun but only if the truly share your dream, even then plan a way out. You don't want to be forced to sell the boat because a partner drops out.
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Old 28-12-2015, 11:50   #18
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Ja, Hej pŚ dig :-)! The Albin 25 is a sweet little thing. They seem to list for 10K and up, but as always, and particularly given that an Albin 25 isn't really a "status symbol" in today's world, you should be able to pick one up for 5K.

I think when they were first marketed in the early '70s they came with a 36 horse Volvo. Such and engine, if in good shape, is worth five grand all by itself, and I shouldn't doubt that even "parted out" it could still realize that much.

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Old 28-12-2015, 11:51   #19
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
First thing you have to decide is whether you are willing to live in what amounts to a closet at a cost that will turn out to be greater than the cost of living in an apartment ashore.
Depends on where you live ...
For what it costs me to live on my lil boat for 12 months, I could live on land for 2 to 3 months, max. And not in nearly as nice a neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
not so much for the purpose of making her "better", let alone making her fit for an ocean cruise,
Hmmm - I'm a KISS kinda gal, meaning I don't want a watermaker or all sorts of gadgets & systems that'll only break and add to expenses and worries.
I don't even have warm water on my boat (but I do have a kettle ), just cold water using a simple foot pump.

A simple, basic boat that is well built and maintained will take you where you want to go. Sails don't have to be new, decent ones will do. Windvane is on my list, already have an autopilot. GPS and maps would come in handy but doesn't have to break the bank. AIS I want, radar ... would be nice but too expensive so no.

In other words: what you really NEED doesn't have to break the bank; usually it's what people WANT that costs the big $.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Our friend Lizzy-Belle (I see a reply from her) in her blog sez some very tenchant things about living aboard. Unfortunately she sez most of them in Dutch :-)
I'll try to post more in English, I promise

Since it's winter, and Dutch winters are too cold to be warm, but too warm to easily heat the boat and the air is very moist (how do you say that in English?), I'm having a lot of fun trying to keep the boat dry and free of mold ... (if only it would freeze and snow ... makes life much easier!).
What this means: the hull gets wet. On the inside, that is Which means all the cupboards get wet, including whatever is in them. The V-berth is a no-go zone during these months.

To keep my bed dry, I use aquamat and 2 electrical blankets (one on, one under the matras).

TL;DR version: if you want all the comforts of home, it's gonna cost ya big time. If you don't mind 'camping', you can do it all on a very small budget. At 20 yo, camping should not be an issue, imho.
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Old 28-12-2015, 11:52   #20
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Just out of curiosity what is your major?
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Old 28-12-2015, 12:11   #21
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Recommend you checkout/ visit Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum's (CBMM) Website/ Calendar of Events. Every Fall they auction off boats that have been donated to CBMM. These boat are not junk. They are loved/ cared for boats whose owners (or maybe their wives) have decided their advancing years (sometimes changing health) just makes it impossible to keep sailing/ boating anymore and they just don't want the hassle of listing/ selling it. So every year CBMM receives 30 or so 'free & clear' donation boats, which means whatever they bring at the auction becomes a free & clear donation to the Museum. This is such a popular event/ major fund raiser that the Museum as a near full time volunteer broker that checks out each boat (engine, sails, ...). The boat has to be in motor/ sail-away condition with no major repairs/ projects required to be accepted as a donation boat. These boats typically go for $2500-$3000 for a 28'-34' sailboat and $5k-$15k for 30'-35' power boats.

That said, the Liveaboard livestyle puts unique considerations/ demands on boat selection. But you should narrow your geographic likes/ dislikes a bit more where you want to be? West coast? (tends to be more expensive), South (really hot/ muggy in Sumner for my tastes), Mid-Atlantic (that's where we ended up after Westcoast for 5 yrs and Caribbean for 2 yrs.) is a great boating expanse, but Winters are cold/ water can freeze and not suitable for (Winter) budge liveaboards. And if you end up with job/ girlfriend that may cause you to want to stay in one location... that's a major consideration.

In Caribbean the wx is great all year, there are endless places to sail, many places to anchor for free, but food, fuel, water, mechanical service, hurricane haulouts 2-4 X a year can get expensive.

Speaking of water... big important topic. You'll need 2-3 gal a day per person for personal hygiene/ cooking/ boat cleaning. Water isn't free or all that accessible in the Caribbean. And you have to go get it either by dink or your boat. Rowing over to a marina (usually free anchorages are far away from marinas!) to get water ever few days gets old fast! While most small boats have small water tanks 15 gal or so and a few have as much as 30 gal... (significant parameter in boat selection) you still have to leave you spot and go fetch water weekly. Yes you can rig scuppers to catch rainwater and direct it into your water tank to help, but that still leaves getting about a gal of drinking water/ day to bring onboard.

I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from Liveaboard/ cruising... very much enjoyed our time/ places visited... but be aware it isn't free. Older boats, engines, sails, heads, dinks, outboards, batteries, VHF radio, GPS, alternators, starters, anchors, lines/ chain, storm damage,... have a way of needing repairs/ causing the wallet to come up when you least want them to break and any repair on boats has a way of costing 2-3x what you thought. So you'll need to budget realistically/ with an emergency nest egg or you may get stuck somewhere with an unusable boat.

All that said, I think a 28' sailboat is about the lower size limit for liveaboard status. And 37' is about the upper limit of your initial budget and ability to singlehand (when an unexpected storm comes up).

There is a lot you'll be giving up on a small liveaboard boat: air conditioning, ice, cold beer/ cold soft drinks, easy access to shore shopping (again, free anchorages are usually a long way from the commercial/ restaurant areas.). When it's just for a week or two vacation, folks don't think twice about loading up the ice box with $20 ice $100 food/ water... but if you're on a strict budget... ice is often first to go!

Lastly, I'd just have to throw in that we both are people that just has to be doing something... useful. After the excitement/ and being 'free' in paradise wore down over 6 months-1yr into a routine... I really wasn't as happy as I thought I would be just sitting on boat day after day. Yes, there are a lot of daily/ weekly chores you must do on a boat to keep it safe, reliable, clean and when you are making way you are very busy... but there are a lot of weather holds/ sitting around for one reason or another that ultimately led to me/ us getting back to the USA and a more 'normal' land/ sailboat balance. Would do it all over again for sure, but what I learned falls under that saying 'be careful what you wish for' what seems like a near obsession life dream can pale fairly quickly when actually living in its reality.




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Old 28-12-2015, 12:35   #22
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

@ LizzyBelle: "I'll try to post more in English, I promise "

Dat is heel vriendelijk :-) But do it for the sake of others rather than for mine. I'm getting a great big bang outta revitalizing what little Dutch I had left. It had been reduced to basic stuff like "pas op de tram", and there ain't a helluvalot of use for that at sea :-)!

Maybe I can swop you for some Scowegian ;-)

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Old 28-12-2015, 12:36   #23
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Depends on where you live ...
For what it costs me to live on my lil boat for 12 months, I could live on land for 2 to 3 months, max. And not in nearly as nice a neighborhood.



Hmmm - I'm a KISS kinda gal, meaning I don't want a watermaker or all sorts of gadgets & systems that'll only break and add to expenses and worries.
I don't even have warm water on my boat (but I do have a kettle ), just cold water using a simple foot pump.

A simple, basic boat that is well built and maintained will take you where you want to go. Sails don't have to be new, decent ones will do. Windvane is on my list, already have an autopilot. GPS and maps would come in handy but doesn't have to break the bank. AIS I want, radar ... would be nice but too expensive so no.

In other words: what you really NEED doesn't have to break the bank; usually it's what people WANT that costs the big $.



I'll try to post more in English, I promise

Since it's winter, and Dutch winters are too cold to be warm, but too warm to easily heat the boat and the air is very moist (how do you say that in English?), I'm having a lot of fun trying to keep the boat dry and free of mold ... (if only it would freeze and snow ... makes life much easier!).
What this means: the hull gets wet. On the inside, that is Which means all the cupboards get wet, including whatever is in them. The V-berth is a no-go zone during these months.

To keep my bed dry, I use aquamat and 2 electrical blankets (one on, one under the matras).

TL;DR version: if you want all the comforts of home, it's gonna cost ya big time. If you don't mind 'camping', you can do it all on a very small budget. At 20 yo, camping should not be an issue, imho.
The word you are searching for is "condensation" Ms. Lizzy Belle...
Ventilation will help a great deal with the problem. Condensation forms in lockers, behind cushions, areas where air is not free to circulate...if air is allowed to circulate in those areas the problem will be minimal or not at all. The areas in the bow and stern are especially bad because air does not naturally circulate there. Since you have access to electricity, experiment with a small fan for instance, or open up the areas like lockers.

I live in a climate much like the one you describe, and once a day I open all three hatches part way, and the skylight, to let the air circulate freely. I hate to lose the heat, but exchanging the air in the boat even for the humid outside air works wonders. I do understand how frustrating it is to live in a climate that is neither too hot nor too cold!
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Old 28-12-2015, 12:54   #24
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

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The word you are searching for is "condensation" Ms. Lizzy Belle...
Haha, yes, that's it

Quote:
Originally Posted by morven55 View Post
Ventilation will help a great deal with the problem.
Absolutely. I always have both hatches cracked open, cupboards are open, 2 fans and a dehumidifier also help. But in certain weather, there's no winning the battle
Part of living aboard where I am (we are).
Every morning and evening I'll open both hatches completely, and let "the fresh air in" while I keep warm in bed

I usually don't heat during the night (unless it's really freezing, and then I'll use a small electrical heater just so my noose doesn't freeze ) so opening the boat in the morning and evening isn't letting out any heat, just more cold coming in.

Anyway, this may all be very OT for the OP - or not, depening on where he is and wants to be.
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Old 28-12-2015, 13:02   #25
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

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Hello,
I am a 20 year old college student right now. I have been working hard and saving as much as I can so that after I graduate college, I can buy a sailboat and sail for a year or two before I enter the real world. This has been a huge dream of mine and I have done the research.

I need some help from you experts:
  • Advice on picking a boat (What do you wish you knew when you were buying?)
  • Advice on privisoning (What are your must haves?)
  • Advice on what you didn't expect
  • Advice on place I must go see

Or, add anything you think I should know as part of the liveaboard experience that a youngin like me should know. I scour craigslist day and night for boats and search for days for any know how I should know. I am also realistic about it all.

Thank you
Wilson
The boat: you always wish you knew then what you know now...find a boat that you can afford, will fulfill your requirements [you have to know what you want to do first]. There are literally thousands of suitable "starter" boats out there.

Provisioning: Eat what you eat now...even if you have no refrigeration, you can use an ice chest or box. You won't be going offshore for months at a time, at least until your experience dictates. By then you will have this worked out.

What you don't expect: Solving these problems is what makes you who you are...those things that you don't expect teach you problem solving skills, people skills, survival skills, all the skills necessary for living a fulfilling life. This is the best and most exciting part of self sufficiency [at least as much as is possible in contemporary society].

Must go see: Follow your dreams...you must have some ideas of your own. The folks here are all over the world...there will be plenty of advice on this one.

Above all, follow your heart in all your endeavors...you can't go wrong if you are true to yourself.

Finally, best of everything to you, and don't look back!
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Old 28-12-2015, 13:05   #26
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

@WilsonTrawick

Like all the others, WA3GAC gives you unassailable advice. And for free yet ;-0)!

I am not wanting to argue with you. I'm merely stating empirically observed fact: Your contention that you can live aboard for a year for the same cost as living ashore for 3 months simply won't hold water. Take it from a perfessional number cruncher :-)!

I recommend most highly that you take a day (or two or three) to set out a realistic budget. Use a spreadsheet :-) Remember to include all the itty-bitty things, e.g. if you are at a marina, you are gonna pay extra for a parking space for your car. When I was a stoodent back in King Arthur's time, my boat lay 60 clicks (40 miles) distant from my Alma Mater. Today she lies 150 clicks distant from my home, and just to check the level of her bilge water costs me forty bux in gas and 6 hours of time! If your "live-aboard" will lie 40 miles distant from YOUR Alma Mater, then the 80 mile round trip just to go to class will cost you, say, ten bux in gas. Three times a week, mebbe five. Plus car insurance, and on and on. It's rare for public transport to be available right by the marina gate. Let alone when you are on the hook! What about the travel time? Will that wear you out to the point that you choose to eat at the university caf rather than make your own box lunch? Will the travel effort make you stop and pick up a curry on the way home? Those kindsa costs are called "opportunity costs". You MUST include them in your spreadsheet. If you don't, you'll be deluding yourself.

Bonne chance!

TrentePieds
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Old 28-12-2015, 13:09   #27
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

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Haha, yes, that's it



Absolutely. I always have both hatches cracked open, cupboards are open, 2 fans and a dehumidifier also help. But in certain weather, there's no winning the battle
Part of living aboard where I am (we are).
Every morning and evening I'll open both hatches completely, and let "the fresh air in" while I keep warm in bed

I usually don't heat during the night (unless it's really freezing, and then I'll use a small electrical heater just so my noose doesn't freeze ) so opening the boat in the morning and evening isn't letting out any heat, just more cold coming in.

Anyway, this may all be very OT for the OP - or not, depening on where he is and wants to be.
Understood...I used to not heat at night, and would wake up to condensation dripping off the overhead...installed a diesel bulkhead heater, and problem almost solved.

And this may very well be good information for OP...
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Old 28-12-2015, 13:13   #28
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

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Your contention that you can live aboard for a year for the same cost as living ashore for 3 months simply won't hold water.
I wrote that, and I started with "depends where you are".

For me, living in the Netherlands, a slip for a 29' boat in a luxury marina costs me €1700 a year - including liveaboard fees for showers etc.. That's an expensive marina! Could find a much cheaper slip, saving at least 50%, but I like this marina - one of the very few what has "legal" liveaboards and makes life comfortable for us.

Even a small room to rent in student housing would cost me at least double that. Water and internet (both cable and wifi) is free, I pay around €350 a year in electricity. On land, I'd pay that in a couple of months.
Just to compare: the apartments next to the marina start at €1200 a month excluding water etc. etc. etc.

BUT - marina fees here are nothing compared to the US, where I'd probably pay around $500 a month (from what I've read on this forum), if they even allow me to live on a 29' boat.

Hence the "depends on where you are"
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Old 28-12-2015, 15:01   #29
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Go see lots of boats. The more you see, the more you know. Then you'll know when the right one comes along.

You don't choose the boat, the boat chooses you.

Be polite. compliment every boat. You never know when someone might make you a great deal. Most boat owners have an emotional connection with their boats, so selling to someone who really wants it is sometime more important than the price.

I'm not making this up. I bought a boat for $100. Sailed it home. Sailed it with my kids. Had many great adventures.

Also, estate sales. Boats cost money to keep. An estate is often glad to be rid of a boat for just the marina fees owing.

I'm not making this up. I bought a dead man's boat very cheap. Excellent boat. His spirit sailed with me. I found his secret logbook, which I returned to his family.

Go to marinas and yacht clubs. Look for boats that have been for sale a very long time. Be polite, and make low offers. The money you save will go a long way towards the new equipment you will need. And when you are done, you will have no trouble getting all your money back.

Also, get some basic hand tools, and learn how to use them.

Good luck.
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Old 28-12-2015, 16:50   #30
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Re: Looking for tips to liveabord-20 years old

Do not believe that the OP has stated that he wants to sail around the world.
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