Looking for cheap international marina cities to live in

[kennj123]

I'm looking at retiring soon with a moderate income and looking for a place to retire where I can sail but stay on land much of the time. I'm not really a fan of living aboard, I just don't seem to get enough exercise when I tried it in the past and really enjoy biking as well. Below is a list of cities I've been looking at moving to. So far my favorites are Turkey, Cesme and Argentina, Buenos Aires, although I have heard medical can substandard in Turkey and crime and inflation are problem in Buenos Aires. One aspect is I do intend to travel very light and not accumulate assets so I can move when necessary. Its even possible to spend time at hot places during the pleasant season, then when it gets too hot, travel elsewhere to more more hospital temps



USA 48K, Panama City(HAF), SanDiego(EAF)
Spain 29K, Valencia
Greece 28K, Kalamalta, https://goo.gl/maps/3iFfbTWhSKG2
Portugal 23K, Lisbon, https://goo.gl/maps/TEW6YPmUZhH2, ocean water cold for swiming.
Croatia 17K, Zadar
Argentina 15K, Buenos Aires, promising marinas, stable currency?
Mexico, 13K, Safe places aren't near water.
Turkey 13K, Alanya, Çeşme(excellent access to greekisles), medical?
Costa Rica, 11K, HAF, coasts seem very expensive
Peru, 9K, Lima,
Thailand, 9K, Phuket, HAF
Dominic Republic, 9K, HAF, SantoDomingo, seems expensive
Belize, 9K, HAF, coast seem expensive
Equador, 9K, HAF, Manta
Ukraine, 7K, Odesa, Cold, unstable
Georgia, 5K, Batumi, marine services??
Philippines, 4K, HAF, Manila, scary
Vietnam, 3K, HAF, marina services?


HAF means "Humid As F...", EAF means "Expensive as F..."



https://www.nationmaster.com/country...ity-per-capita
https://weatherspark.com
https://www.airbnb.com/


weatherspark has fantastic graphs of seasonal climate. airbnb looks really useful to quickly find larger cities on coasts and approx prices for rentals.

[Copacabana]

Buenos Aires is lovely, but they do have a winter. Also, the sailing is in the Rio de la Plata river delta, which might become boring after a while (and the winter winds are not to be trifled with). If your income is in dollars, I wouldn't worry about inflation in Argentina. Crime is not really a problem. You might want to look at SE Brazil as well- great sailing, tons of islands, no tropical storms, no "winter" and very cheap.

[PaulSommers]

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico is safe, sitting on the edge of Banderas Bay. There are places to visit by sailboat to the south with no problem. Many sailors prefer the La Cruz marina towards the north end of Banderas Bay. It does get hot/humid from June through October, and many gringos head back to the north, or inland to places such as Lake Chapalla or San Miguel de Allende. All are safe and have many ex-pat residents. Residency is easy and cheap, but you would have to import your boat into Mexico after becoming a resident. The alternative leaving the country for a few days/months once you hit your 180 day tourist visa limit. A Temporary Import Permit for the boat for people coming in as tourists on a boat cost just $50. The cost of living we estimate at about 1/3 of living in a US city. Moorage is not cheap, but you can anchor out at La Cruz if you prefer. Acapulco and Mazatlan do not have good reputations on the crime issue, but I think that La Paz and smaller places to the north in the Sea of Cortez have good reputations on the safety issue. Same issue as PV as far as summer heat and humidity, but closer to the US border if that is where you would head during the summer.

Paul, boatless in Puerto Vallarta (I keep my boat in the Puget Sound for summer sailing and enjoy the winter months down here)

[valhalla360]

A few thoughts:
- Check the requirements for getting residency. Depending on how "moderate" your income is some may not want you. (if you are willing to move every 3-6months, you can usually get tourist visas though the boat may change the rules depending on the country)
- What kind of lifestyle do you want? What we've found is the closer you live to an American lifestyle...the closer you pay to American costs no matter where you are (some expenses are higher and others are lower but on average...). If yo are looking for savings, are you willing to live like the locals?
- What are the 00k numbers? If it's the cost of an annual slip, many are way off from what is available (example: we had an annual slip in spain a bit north of Valencia for 3k vs your 39k). If it's total annual cost of living, with the possible exception of the first 3 or 4 on the list, it might be possible but it will be an extremely spartan existence.

[chuckr]

First you are an American - so residence in the EU can be an issue - but you may be able to over come it
Second we have been to a number of places you mentioned
Croatia is becoming expensive and gets really cold
Greece is nice but in EU and there are a number of places such as Corfu - issue with the expense verses other options
Spain is possible but you got to find a way to stay
Turkey - we spent 3 winters there - 2 Kusadasi - 1 good 1 bad - and 1 in Marmaris in Netsel (loved Marmaris and Netsel) - your concerns on medical are based on what? I got my gall bladder removed there, had lots of skin stuff done, and eye issues - medical is pretty good overall and we would have no issues with staying in Turkey long term EXCEPT for the current gov't - it could be ok or not
Belize is possible - lots of expats there and sailing is good
Ukraine is great and we have an American with a boat living there - the only problem is getting a long term stay visa - he solved by marrying a local girl - but it is cold but great place and we really liked it
Georgia - nope - not much there and no real dockage let alone sailing the Black Sea on that end -
If Turkey did not have the current gov't or Portugal would allow long term stay we would go to either =
ALSO Tunisia - we have some Brit friends there who have been there a long time and love it .
good luck

[kennj123]

I took all the replies I got and added them to my list and removed a few too. I'm updating this googlemymap with locations: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DM...59&usp=sharing . The order sequence is by purchasing power parity.



Turkey and the turquoise coast is very interesting. Lots of interesting sailing, inexpensive living and great weather. The town of Didim has a large British expat community and there is a really nice looking marina there.



Just to give a short description of what I'd like to do: I enjoy biking and sailing. I would like to live somewhere like Didim Turkey for 4-6months per year and sail and bike local. then for some weeks or months go else where like Loire Valley in France and bike for 1-2months. Then maybe go somewhere further south during the coldest periods in Turkey. I guess it depends on my budget, my guess is my income will be about 45k through retirement, I'm quite content living a rather spartan life style. I'm single, late 50s and don't really feel like going back to work and risk having health problems from sitting at a desk too much.

[Standbly]

Oh this one is easy: Las Palmas Gran Canarias. Winner of a "best climate of the world" selection.

Super cheap but very good marina. Safe! Very good and cheap healthcare. Cheap groceries, cheap wine, bear, Iberigo ham! super cheap rental cars (2,50 a day if you shop right off season). It goes on and on.
Las Palmas was a good place to live in.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Standbly

Oh this one is easy: Las Palmas Gran Canarias. Winner of a "best climate of the world" selection.

Super cheap but very good marina. Safe! Very good and cheap healthcare. Cheap groceries, cheap wine, bear, Iberigo ham! super cheap rental cars (2,50 a day if you shop right off season). It goes on and on.
Las Palmas was a good place to live in.

Sounds really great. It does have the Schengen 90 out of 180 days visa issue for nonEU passport holders.

[kennj123]

[QUOTE=Standbly;2769869]Oh this one is easy: Las Palmas Gran Canarias. Winner of a "best climate of the world" selection.

Super cheap but very good marina. Safe! Very good and cheap healthcare. Cheap groceries, cheap wine, bear, Iberigo ham! super cheap rental cars (2,50 a day if you shop right off season). It goes on and on.
Las Palmas was a good place to live in.[/QUOTE


I added it to my map. Temperture barely moves from 70F to 80F. It does appear to get humid in the summer according to weathersparks. I'm a bit surprised prices are so low. Typically islands are a premium since everything has to be shipped in. Airbnb prices are moderate, pretty typical of any Spanish resort town.

[belizesailor]

Whats the number followed by a "K" mean?

Ive lived/travelled/cruised all over Central America (CA) for many years so can provide input there:

Belize: one of the most expensive countries in CA due to outrageous Customs duties and producing almost nothing in country. Hot and humid across the entire country, no higher elevations for cooler climate options. Great cruisng and diving. Beureacracy there can be a special PITA (worse than other CA countries), but not so bad if you are just visiting or retiring and have no business plans. Good retirement residency. English is official languange. Currency: fixed exchange rate at 2:1 to US$. Direct short flights from USA, but few other international flight options. Dont get sick in Belize...if you do then do what afluent Belizeans do: go somewhere else for treatment.

Costa Rica. Very expensive. Crime rate rising. Rising expenses & crime have caused several of my friends to leave CR and move to nearby Panama. Big economic problems looming. Beautiful country, but culturally very homogenous (way more so than other CA countries) and touristy. Choice of climates by changing altitude. If I were to live in CR it would likely be in Golfito or San Vito...or some time in each.

Honduras/Nicaragua/El Salvador. I really enjoy all these countries, esp Nica, but all three have problems too acute right now to recommend them.

Guatemala. My adopted home country for many years. Love it, but it aint for everyone as it can be a bit Wild West and infrastructure can be deficient outside of upscale areas of Guatemala City. Easy retirement residency. Inexpensive (with exception of upscale areas of Guatemala City). Choice of range of climates from hot humid coastal to chilly high altitude cloud forests. Excellent healthcare available at very reasonable cost in Guatemala City (outside Guate City...not so much). Spectacularly beautiful areas. Interesting history/culture.

Panama. A strong option for most expats. Numerous residency programs give you lots of options (a bewildering array in fact). Booming economy. Lower crime rate than its CA bretheren. Moderately inexpensive for CA (this means less than BZ or CR, but a bit more than other CA countries...still very affordable). Dollarized economy so no echange, spend US$s directly...including coins! Better infrastructure than most other CA countries. Good internaltional flight options via Panama City. A choice of a range of climates (we now live in Panama at 4,500'...damn near perfect spring like climate all year)...and either big city or small town. Lots to do in Panama...within a 2 hour or less (mostly less) radius of where we live we can hike, camp (something I would never do in Guate), bike, sea kayak, 4WD, horseback ride, whitewater kayak, fish (fresh & salt), sail, snorkel/SCUBA...we could literally hike in the mountains in the AM and be sea kayaking by the afternoon...pretty cool.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by kennj123

Just to give a short description of what I'd like to do: I enjoy biking and sailing. I would like to live somewhere like Didim Turkey for 4-6months per year and sail and bike local. then for some weeks or months go else where like Loire Valley in France and bike for 1-2months. Then maybe go somewhere further south during the coldest periods in Turkey. I guess it depends on my budget, my guess is my income will be about 45k through retirement, I'm quite content living a rather spartan life style. I'm single, late 50s and don't really feel like going back to work and risk having health problems from sitting at a desk too much.

If you give up on the boat...very doable.

Lately we've been bouncing around to various airbnb places (boatless at the moment). It's easy to use tourist visas and costs are very manageable with a little planning. It also means you aren't tied to one area of the world.

The problem with the boat is it has significant ongoing costs even when you aren't using it. Can it be done...yeah but the more time you spend away from the boat the less it makes sense on a limited budget.

[Ponzoa]

On the VISA front, Spain (including the Canary Islands) or Greece are good options as you can jump across to Morocco or Turkey for a few days and your 90 day visa starts counting again.

Las Palmas or one of the other Canary Islands are great options if you're not fond of the cold plus if you get tired of one Island, you can move to the next.

Good luck!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Ponzoa

On the VISA front, Spain (including the Canary Islands) or Greece are good options as you can jump across to Morocco or Turkey for a few days and your 90 day visa starts counting again.

The EU closed that loophole down about 15 yrs ago.

The current rule is if you look back at the last 180 days, you get a maximum of 90 days in the Schengen area (includes most of western Europe).

So leaving for a few days doesn't gain you much of anything.

[El Pinguino]

Maybe consider the Los Lagos region of Chile? Between Concepcion and Pto Montt...

Quite a few expats down here... relatively easy to get residency.... bonzer climate, excellent wine, stable government........what not to like... ask questions here... https://www.allchile.net

[Standbly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The EU closed that loophole down about 15 yrs ago.

The current rule is if you look back at the last 180 days, you get a maximum of 90 days in the Schengen area (includes most of western Europe).

So leaving for a few days doesn't gain you much of anything.

Nobody ever checks the Las Palmas Marina. There are thousands of foreign boats not cleared in or overstaying months. Clearing out (getting to customs for a stamp or a clearance form) is almost impossible. If you're flying in and out it's a different matter. Anyway, you can fly from or to the Netherlands for only 40 dollar. It's by far the cheapest place to live that we've been to. Civilized place that is [emoji6]