Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2015, 10:23   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Looking for assistance

I am getting close to making the jump. I am hoping to retire early (45) in the next year. My wife and I are confident we want to move onto a boat a cruise around the world while we are still able. We sailed on our 40' Beneteau and lived on board for 2 summers but that is the extent of it, other than our ASA training. We currently have a Formula 34PC that we will be selling while we are on the hunt for our new home (sailboat). This is a huge deal becasue I am walking away from a good paying job where the stress is taking its toll. It seems like no matter how much I save, its never enough and Ive been stuck in the everyday groove because of fear. I could use some input on the following:

1. How much is enough money for a couple to retire at age 45? Budget is $200k or less for the boat and we intent to live within our means, whatever that may be.

2. What boat do you recommend under $200k?

3. How do you handle health insurance?

4. Where can we buy and register the boat to save $$? CT is expensive.

Once I overcome the above, I can ask more questions. Thank you all for you help.

shane
__________________

__________________
ctsrj1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2015, 10:40   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Frostproof, Fl boat at Tampa Sailing Squadron
Boat: Searunner, 37'
Posts: 216
Re: Looking for assistance

1. If you somehow can buy and register the boat in RI legally you will not pay sales tax, a big savings.

2. I bought an old Searunner 37 trimaran for $12k and had to put another $12 into it to make it sea worthy. It is basic but the design has wandered the world. The separate cabins make for comfortable cruising. The sleeping/head spaces are separate from the galley and saloon giving privacy to the sleeper/head user. There is a Searunner forum here if you want to see details of the boat.

3. Health insurance I can't help you with. I have federal employee health insurance for myself and wife. It costs $450/month.
__________________

__________________
John B.
https://buildingmytrimaran.shutterfly.com/
blewett_john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2015, 11:25   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,374
Re: Looking for assistance

Hi Shane,

Can help with some of your questions but some are just too open ended to give an exact answer, specifically how much money to you need to retire. That will depend 99.99% on where and how you live and the life style you choose. Some of the variables:

- Will you stay in marinas or anchor out most of the time?
- Will you stay in marinas in fancy, expensive cities or small, out of the way places? Obviously dock space will be way more expensive at a marina in Monaco than at a marina in Guatemala.
- Will you eat out at fancy restaurants and drink Bordeaux or cook spaghetti on the boat and drink Two Buck Chuck?
- Will you do your own boat maintenance and repairs or pay a boat yard?

1, Costs are in the top three most common questions and have been address many times in previous threads. Spend a couple of minutes searching previous discussions on this forum and you'll find hours of reading on the subject. Here's links to a couple of the more detailed discussions.

Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

$500 v $5000 a month budget - which is best?

2. What boat? Also in the top 2-3 most common questions and again the answer depends. A boat I love you may hate. Some want better performance, others don't care if the boat is slow but want built like a tank. Some swear a full keel ketch rig is the only boat for ocean crossing and others wouldn't take that setup if you gave it to them. If there were just a few best boats then there wouldn't be hundreds of different brands and models. Really this question is almost like asking what woman should I marry. Depends on whether like looks or brains, blonds or brunettes, thin or buxom. No overall right or wrong answer. So just like most people date a number of others before settling on a partner you might want to play the boat field a little before making a long term commitment.

3. Health insurance? You can buy insurance that covers you anywhere in the world except the US quite cheaply compared to buying insurance for the US. Otherwise no secrets or tricks that boaters know that aren't available to anyone else in the US.

4. RI does not have sales tax or annual luxury tax on boats so if you can establish residency or an address there that's a link. FL may be a better long term option. You will pay sales tax, even on a used boat, but there is no state income tax in FL nor an annual personal property tax.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2015, 11:37   #4
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Looking for assistance

Shane, I've spent some time debating whether I should take on your questions. The answers would be tremendously different for the various needs and expectations of different people. I'll answer as I would judge for myself, but keep in mind that my answers might not be fit for you. We retired at age 55 after already living aboard and cruising for thirty years.

Here's my strategy by your numbered questions:

1. We live aboard and cruise as retirees at about 4K/month. This is about half our income. I would skip by any 200K boats and purchase something 35' to 40' for about 50K. Much of what I don't spend is bolstered by paying liability insurance only. Premiums that I have not paid for hull coverage over the years would far more than pay for replacing my boat out of pocket.

2. My choice would be to not shop for a boat by the manufacturer's name. I would be looking for a 20+ year old boat and it's history of care would be far more significant than the manufacturer. My choice would be a fiberglass, moderate draft, long encapsulated keel, moderate to heavy displacement boat. I would favor something simple with a good survey. Tankage, access, sound engine, rigging and simple mechanics are important to me.

3. I have insurance that comes with my retirement package, but if I was searching on the open market I would be aware of the advantages of affordable health care. Over 65, when that comes, the medicare supplemental F plan does best for being mobile on US coasts. I've been surprised by inexpensive and good medical treatment outside the US.

4. We've been long term Florida residents. Boat registration is inexpensive in Florida; however, sales tax can be substantial. My choice would be to hunt for the boat with a clear list of qualifications including the purchase price and simply include the sales tax in the evaluation of the expense. It would be more important to me to avoid a yearly property tax levied on a boat in some states.

My choices come with much independent DIY maintenance, no cars or real estate and
the freedom that comes without ownership of anything that's not on my boat.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2015, 13:29   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Looking for assistance

Hudson, that's a really good set of suggestions and answers to the OP's questions.

Well said!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 03:42   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Re: Looking for assistance

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Shane.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 05:47   #7
Registered User
 
Muckle Flugga's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aboard the Ocean wave
Boat: 55' sloop.
Posts: 1,426
Re: Looking for assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctsrj1 View Post
I am getting close to making the jump. I am hoping to retire early (45) in the next year. My wife and I are confident we want to move onto a boat a cruise around the world while we are still able. We sailed on our 40' Beneteau and lived on board for 2 summers but that is the extent of it, other than our ASA training. We currently have a Formula 34PC that we will be selling while we are on the hunt for our new home (sailboat). This is a huge deal becasue I am walking away from a good paying job where the stress is taking its toll. It seems like no matter how much I save, its never enough and Ive been stuck in the everyday groove because of fear. I could use some input on the following:

1. How much is enough money for a couple to retire at age 45? Budget is $200k or less for the boat and we intent to live within our means, whatever that may be.

2. What boat do you recommend under $200k?

3. How do you handle health insurance?

4. Where can we buy and register the boat to save $$? CT is expensive.

Once I overcome the above, I can ask more questions. Thank you all for you help.

shane
Welcome aboard.

1. Why fully retire? Can you supplement your income in some way while living aboard and travelling. Likely possible. Perhaps you may not want to now, but you likely will at some point. Other than that it is a hard question. I know a young couple who spent 7 years living aboard a 32 foot 1968 built vessel bought for 5000 USD, crossing the Pacific during two of those years with extraordinarily little money at all, making a buck here and there by labouring, cleaning hulls etc. Life at anchor can be cheap! On the other end of the spectrum there are Billionaires working all the time to make more money. The answer is simply: what are you comfortable with and how much makes you feel secure? One piece of advice I can certainly give: if you have property, try not to sell it in order to feed this dream. Rent it out instead. Too many people I have known have been effectively locked out of property ownership by selling up everything to live on a boat.

2. I STRONGLY recommend you buy older and top quality. For something like that price you can get Oysters, Hallberg Rassys or Swans from the early 90s and before, often LOADED with fantastic ocean kit. Berthon is an excellent brokerage for bluewater vessels and of course there are others, but looking on their site will give you some pointers on what is available. Remember that so long as a QUALITY boat is well maintained, it remains every bit as good older as newer. You can end up buying a boat which new would cost you 5 or 7 times as much for that money, before even a sail is put on her!

3. Remember international health insurance is dramatically cheaper outside the US. You can get fully covered in all countries excluding the us for well under 1000 USD a year, including millions of dollars evac cover. Health insurance in the States is criminally high. I don't want to get in a rant about it, but it seems to me the whole system there is massively wasteful economically, chiefly because it is treated primarily as an industry, and not as a human service. Drugs, treatments and insurance are ALL DRAMATICALLY less expensive in pretty much the whole rest of the world.
__________________
‘Structural engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyse as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.’
Muckle Flugga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 07:31   #8
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Re: Looking for assistance

If you are healthy overall, you may choose a catastrophic policy for US and get some evac/health insurance like others mention here for other countries. There really is great affordable care in some other countries, just do your research if it's a priority. If you're 45 and feeling the affects of stress, you'll be paying for that now or later. That's great you can take a big break now. Just look at it that way and set it up so you can jump back in at some point if you get tired of cruising or need to earn for a little while. i.e. Rent your house out if possible, unless you have another home base you can come back to.

After reading Mfluggas post above et al, I have to agree on the boat. I bought a pacific seacraft 34 five years ago for around the 50k mark. It had zero electronics and an engine with over 4000 hours. But what it didn't have? Holes all through the cabin or decks, holes in the mast, contributing to compression post rot, etc etc. What it had going for it, was it was essentially like a brand new boat, which cost hundreds of thousands these days. I've been able to configure it just like I want it, which is important after owning other boats and having a pretty good idea of how I like things. You can look for a long time, but if you can find a boat that was maintained by someone who knew what they were doing, and did their own quality repairs, or subbed out to the right pros, you can end up with something really nice that may also resell well. Multiple motor mount or exhaust elbow replacements, through hulls, cutlass bearings, etc are the kinds of things I noticed right away in the service records of my 1988 boat. In tiny, perfect script from a German- American engineer Twenty years of receiptsi

There may be some exceptional deals on boats that are fully outfitted. Personally I would not buy a tricked out boat that didn't have the right fundamentals --in overall design -- and salient features like engine access, tankage, or whatever else is non-negotiable.

Overall I guess I'm encouraging you to get something modest unless you have a really fat portfolio. If I spent even $25k on my 50k boat, I'd have something that fundamentally was the same as the new ones pacific seacraft sells for over $300,000. So if you can find a good deal on a Halberg or whatever other reputable build suits you, you'll have that much more for unforseens, or general living.

Best of luck-





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 09:31   #9
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Looking for assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctsrj1 View Post
I am getting close to making the jump. I am hoping to retire early (45) in the next year. My wife and I are confident we want to move onto a boat a cruise around the world

SNIP
As others have pointed out not everyone has the same definition of cruising. Cruising around the world makes your question even harder to answer.

One thing I have noticed is that lots of folks buy a boat for what they think they will be doing, not what they actually do on the boat.

Not saying it would be your ideal boat but I have a Seawind catamaran. It is a fairly open shallow draft boat I can easily single hand. I have been mostly living on it for the last three years. For the Florida Keys and Bahamas it is an ideal boat for me. But I tend to only sail in daylight and pick my weather windows in an area where good weather reports are easy to get.

If I was considering sailing the Southern Ocean and rounding the three great capes I would be looking for something like a steel hulled ketch with a good heater.

One thing you might do is take a trip to Georgetown in the Bahamas. It is semi famous for being the place where lots of folks leave their boats after making the easy sailing from Florida to the Bahamas and then realize the next step is having to cross the thornpatch to go any further. Not saying that will happen to you, just that many folks have a somewhat romantic idea of what cruising is like.

I am more than content to limit my sailing to Florida and the Bahamas where life is easy, English is spoken, and paperwork is minimal. Nothing wrong with sailing around the three capes, but it is just too much work for me.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 13:26   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Re: Looking for assistance

Great responses from everyone and I appreciate the input. Its a big step. Was planning on selling my house, not for the money, but less headaches and one less thing to worry about. I am in an industry that I could always return to if needed but would rather nor. Maybe we can approach this as a complete hypothetical.

Assume you are 45 and want to retire on a sailboat, in warm climate, with you, your wife and your dog. You do not currently have a sailboat but have saved up about $900k in cash and have no debt. How would you make your dream happen?

shane
__________________
ctsrj1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 18:35   #11
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,666
Re: Looking for assistance

The bigger the boat, the greater the expenses will be. There are maintenance costs to budget for, some marina time (for repairs, for foreign travel). Maintenance costs for yourselves in the form of ever-increasingly expensive health care. Your food costs will not change. You will save some by selling vehicles and extraneous possessions.. Plan on boat insurance, most places you'll go will require at least 3rd party.

So, get the smallest, nicest boat you think will satisfy yourself and your good lady. Do not buy new. Buy used, let the PO pay all the commissioning and first few years depreciation on it.

Invest most of your nest egg in a broad spectrum pattern, and hope for the best. Plan on 10% inflation per year.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:12   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Living aboard and cruising
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 276
Images: 1
Re: Looking for assistance

I always make this recommendation to people who are at this stage of the process....buy a book by Beth Leonard called The Voyagers Handbook. It will guide you through the decision making process for buying a boat and preparing to go cruising. It covers every aspect from boat selection to provisioning. It will guide you through the decision making process like no other resource.
__________________
Smooth seas never made an experienced sailor.

Bill
CaptainBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 12:08   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Re: Looking for assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBW View Post
I always make this recommendation to people who are at this stage of the process....buy a book by Beth Leonard called The Voyagers Handbook. It will guide you through the decision making process for buying a boat and preparing to go cruising. It covers every aspect from boat selection to provisioning. It will guide you through the decision making process like no other resource.
I have read the book and it is great. I keep referring back to it. I just need to find a good boat and finish selling off all of the things Ive collected.
__________________
ctsrj1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 12:34   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Boat: Workin' on it
Posts: 208
Re: Looking for assistance

Looks like you are in a pretty good spot. Check out early-retirement.org for the financial stuff. There are lots of people there that retired at your age. $800k of your money should be invested. I would by an older boat for $50k and use the other 50k to cruise.

Generally if you live an expensive lifestyle on land it will follow you to the boat. Your $800k will give you $32k a year based on a 4% withdrawal rate. You will have this amount in perpetuity and it will adjust for inflation. I would say that after boat maintenance, taxes, insurance, and health care you might have a budget of $1500 per month. There are people that do it for even less. This is if you never want to work again. If you don't mind part time or seasonal work you can spend more.

Personally I wouldn't spend a 1/4 of my net worth on a boat. Actually on any depreciating asset.
__________________
LLCoolDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2015, 13:06   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Boat: Tayana 58 DS
Posts: 661
Re: Looking for assistance

I'm not sure whether to extend congratulations to you on your plan, or sympathies for getting to the point where you need to get away from the stress. Perhaps both are in order.

To echo others' points, although you may want to retire onto the boat and are young now, you will not always be. Think about how/when cruising ends.... you will probably need housing then. Perhaps instead of viewing it as retirement, you could view it as taking a break for a few years?

As LLCoolDAve said, if you invested $800k, it would yield about $32k, adjusted for inflation. Are you prepared to live on that, or less, when you're done cruising? Expect to spend at least 5-10% of the value of the boat every year on its care and maintenance. If you use a significant portion of assets on the boat, your income will obviously be lower.

In the US, you only need to pay sales tax on the boat if you keep it more than X (X=30,60, ...) days a year in a jurisdiction that requires sales or use tax. If you're constantly on the move, you don't need state registration -- just US documentation. In RI, if you are there more than 60 days you are supposed to register the vessel, for a fee.

Health insurance could be one of your larger expenses. For our family, US health insurance is close to $25k a year.

Lastly, I would not count on the proceeds from sale in your developing your future financial plan. Boats depreciate, sometimes are lost, and occasionally sit on the market for years. Think about whether you want to be in a position of being dependent on proceeds of the sale of the boat, or selling at a particular price, in order to have financial security.
__________________

__________________
accomplice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for some assistance from the forum kaiserlp2 Liveaboard's Forum 18 23-02-2009 11:14
Seeking assistance in plannig mid Chesapeake Bay sailing charter seafrog General Sailing Forum 5 22-03-2008 17:48
NZ Designer Assistance DHHong Kong Construction, Maintenance & Refit 24 17-06-2007 01:52
New sailor, needs much assistance dmb4eva85 Meets & Greets 13 10-04-2007 08:31
research assistance ? teambenthos General Sailing Forum 9 01-06-2004 14:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.