Living with Pain

[DLECF]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

It has been 3 months now of being back to full time liveaboard, after a 11 year hiatus, where the comforts of a house, business projects and far too many Resteraunt meals, took their toll on the body.

The good news is that the weight is coming off naturally, I'm on a healthy no carb diet, muscle mass building up slowly, no migraines and my BP is at acceptable levels.
Most importantly, I'm so happy being back in my element and away from the marina.

BUT, old injuries bring with it pains to knee caps, ankles (tore my Achilles Tendon two years ago) and of course the lower back, when I forget my age and use muscle over brains!

I never take pain killers, but that bottle of scotch is looking profoundly medicinal!
Any advice or suggestions?

Pelagic:
I suggest that you evaluate your current diet before considering taking pain meds on a chronic basis. Eating anti-inflammatory foods on a daily basis as well as avoiding foods known to increase intracellular inflammation should be beneficial in decreasing your arthritis symptoms. Multiple lists of foods with anti-inflammatory properties are available with an internet search. A bottle of red wine has more anti-inflammatory chemicals than a bottle of scotch. Not all carbs are bad. Oatmeal is an anti-inflammatory food especially when you add blueberries and English walnuts to the bowel. If your arthritis symptoms have not improved to your satisfaction after eating an anti-inflammatory diet for 3 to 6 weeks, then you could consider adding OTC ant-inflammatory supplements. There is no doubt in my mind that we humans essentially become what we eat and drink.

[DeepFrz]

I'm going to disagree with the folks who say don't take any analgesics for the pain. I take acetaminophen and ibuprofen in combination, usually just before going to bed. I find that I sleep better and in the morning the swelling and pain are much reduced if not gone completely. Some days of course are better than others and occasionally I need to take a dose sometime during the day. I have had to do this for quite some years now.

I also do exercises for my knees, as I have mentioned, and exercises for my back including plank and pushups and kettle bell swing. These exercises have strengthened me and given me much better endurance. Being able to walk without back pain has allowed me to walk farther than I have been able to walk in a few years.

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by ATII410

Pelagic:
add blueberries and English walnuts to the bowel.

I can see blueberries, but don't the walnuts hurt? Do you at least shell them first?

[zeehag]

use extreme caution with acetominophen and asa and or ibu in conjunction with each other.. is liver damage city.

[stu291]

greetings pelagic
Knee pain is often secondary to a tight iliotibial band, stretching and deep tissue massage to lengthen those tissues may help your knee problems, anti-inflammatories, boswellia, novasol curcumin , for your low back it would probably help be helpful for you to learn to sleep on your back if you sleep in a hammock or something with that kind of shape and makes it very difficult to sleep on your side or stomach, also crunches and planks are helpful for low back pain long-term

[stu291]

Also sam-e, it actually helps to rebuild your cartilage it's one of those things that your body makes and you make less as you grow older so supplement mentation is helpful it also makes you happy
I had a traumatic shoulder injury and so had to learn to sleep on my back instead of my side, I used a semi inflated air mattress with egg crate foam on top

[sailorxyz]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

No such thing as a healthy low carb diet. Adkins and “paleo” are a recipe for cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, cancer, IBS, acid reflux etc. The only “diet” that’s scientifically proven to prevent and reverse such illnesses is a whole-food plant based diet. References upon request, or do your own homework.

In total agreement. I'm vegan and my health has just got better and better ever since I started this way of life. Started (in 1990) by dropping meat as it was not practical for small boat voyaging, by stages became vegetarian and the last 12 years 100% vegan. Don't even like any animal product now. Being vegan is good for me, the planet and the poor animals that are murdered every day.... Only a whole food plant based diet now.

[LargeMarge]

Retired Physical Therapist here, trained as a combat medic. [Offering generalized suggestions proven to help a lot of folks; your MD makes the final determination.]

I swear by turmeric.

I add it to everything == eggs to stews, smoothies to curries. Naturally, my pots and pans and plates and counters are various shades of yellow. I can live with that.

I also like a product called 'Golden Milk', a turmeric-base with black pepper and other supportives.

My across-the-board best advice == eliminate grains, dairy, alcohol, and other inflammatory agents. Quit doing injurious activities.

[ice57]

Try going completely gluten free. It’s harder than you think, because you have to examine all ingredient labels (for instance, cheap “soy” sauce is more wheat than soy).
Your joints will thank you, you will have a ton more energy, and you will continue to lose weight.

[PirateBarnabus]

First of all, you're low carb approach to ridding excess weight was an excellent idea.
I lost 30 lb super fast and kept it off.
Knee surgery is an option perhaps.

I've often said that if I make to my 80s and suffer any ongoing discomfort, I'll grow weed in my greenhouse (not yet purchased) and smoke it profusely.
It is seemingly legal now in many areas and for any kind of medical treatment, it's a given.
No one should suffer ongoing pain for no reason.
Onwards and upwards! 😀

[LargeMarge]

My final post on this matter:

Physical Therapist here.

I strongly suggest avoiding NSAID drugs such as ibuprofen. The potential for liver damage is too great. Over-the-counter drugs are not health-supportive.

Eliminate nightshades? Seconded! Although the potato family offers a miniscule amount of complete protein, the inflammatory nature is probably not worth the long-term consequences for most vegantarianists.

Eliminate grain? Seconded! Grains have no place in the diet of humans or other mammals. For several hundred thousand years, our ancestors consumed a high percentage of fresh fruits and vegetables. Grains are a recent development paralleling that other abomination == civilization.

The worst consequence of a grain-based diet == cinnamon rolls, toast, bagels, pasta == is their replacing nutrient-dense foods such as yams and other vegetables. Your choice == cheap filler, or a diet rich in vital vitamins and minerals?

A rumor == mammal brains have an area designed to instantly addict to opiate-type substances and the resultant euphoria. Heroin does this at the same level as gambling or NSA sex. Here's the kicker == wheat activates an identical hormonal dump... eat a big plate of spaghetti or a nice bowl of oatmeal aka 'comfort food' to get that buzz you crave. Bad idea.

Then, two-hours after breakfast, it's time for coffee and donuts to re-live that blood-sugar spike. And the roller-coaster continues, adrenaline dump followed by insulin dump followed by cortisol dump... followed by adrenal fatigue, followed by what? Cancers? Dementia? Type 2 sugar diabetes?

Feed-lots use grains to increase the weight of the carcass by inducing inflammation. More weight equals higher costs to the consumer with all that delicious marbling... then we eat the inflamed meat along with the antibiotics used to keep the ill animal just this side of dead.

The most sprayed crop? Cotton. So, of course, feed-lots give cottonseed to cows and chickens to increase the weight by adding inflammation. Bad idea.

On the subject of antibiotics == each ingestion reduces subsequent effectiveness. Eat a factory turkey or chicken, destroy your ability to recover from flu or MERSA or Ebola.

Antibiotics have the bad habit of interfering with the healthy gut biome. And as we all learned in second grade [sarc], at least 80-percent of our immune system is in our gut.

2011, I eliminated grains == wheat oats corn rice etc == and dropped 30-pounds in 30-days; it was all water, bloat, edema from inflammation.

And what is the source of all modern disease? Inflammation.

With this success, I switch to organic. I quit consuming 'my fair share' of the millions of tons of petroleum-based chemicals we dump on crops. That change dropped an additional 30-pounds of blubber.

On a roll, I switched to pastured meats and wild game. The simple elimination of factory-farmed and feed-lot meat is a life-saver for me.

As an extra additional bonus, these changes eliminated allergies. The terrible arthritis in my hands, wrists, neck, knees... gone.

The 'brain fog', gone.

Then I eliminated soy. Hydrogenated oils and trans-fats such as margarine and deep-fried simulated food-like substances. French fries and chicken fried in Crisco™? Bad idea for me.

* * * * *

The downside? Nobody likes a smarty-pants know-it-all preaching and propagandizing about changing out of a familiar rut. Ouch.

[zoran123]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

Just a word if advice - although most people consider NSAIDS to be safe drugs there is a very real and significant increase in heart attack and stroke risk that comes with their use.


https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...k-201507138138

In constant high level pain is no way to live a life. A heart attack would offer the ultimate pain relief [emoji16]

A stroke would make it all so much worse

[kgarlick]

For chronic and acute pain, I have used a SCENAR.
This is an electronic device that I have been using since I damaged my tendon in my elbow and was looking for relief. For me this device has been a miracle and an unbelievable pain relief device. I used it for several years and am on my second device because I damaged my first one. I would not travel without it and keep it on board for emergency pain relief and in my purse if I am travelling just in case of an injury. (For my chronic pain I went on a whole food plant based diet and found I don't use my SCENAR now expect for acute pain, when an injury occurs on board.) https://ritmscenarusa.com/

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

My final post on this matter:

Physical Therapist here.


* * * * *

The downside? Nobody likes a smarty-pants know-it-all preaching and propagandizing about changing out of a familiar rut. Ouch.

Great post Marge and really appreciated!

Educating myself on food choices, is a bit confusing for me, because so many "experts" apparently contradict each other in their enthusiasm to sell their own solution.

The most effective for me was the Cohen Plan, which had me down to my target weight until I tore my Achilles Tendon and spent a depressing year rehabilitating and putting the "comfort food" weight back on.

That plan tells you that your individual blood chemistry dictates what foods works best for weight loss and health.

So that tells me that there are different "best" food choices for different people

Reading "Foods that Heal" overwhelms me with details

I am loosely following a ketogenic diet while transtioning to boat life, but I need to watch my BP as I wean myself off of pills started last year.

I am juicing a lot now, but the greens and vegies available in the Philippines are quite limited.
Also the fruits have too high a sugar content to make meals from them.

I like hearing success stories like yours Marge as they both inspire and give me options to try.

I just know that it is mostly a mental fight to break bad eating habits and don't cheat.

As Zee said, the Sea inspires you to eat healthier and stay active.

[Cpt Mark]

I'm 63, look about 10 years younger, think even younger than that. My spine though was that of an 80 year old 10 years ago. I've had 40 surgeries. Broke my neck snowboarding, paralyzed from the neck down. Came back. Fell on a flat trail backpacking 3 years ago, paralyzed from the neck down, helicoptered out of the back country. Spinal compression. Had 6 surgeries on the right knee. #'s 5 and 6 were total replacements. I destroyed the 1st TKR in 8 months. Wrong size part and not put in correctly. Have had constant knee pain for over 20 years.

Dr's had me on morphine, ten times my Dad's dose as he was dieing from cancer. Last surgery they gave me Diluadid, lots. Ok, overdose levels because my body is resistant to narcotics.

Went through pain management 1 and 2 and finally listened to the European Dr's who told me 10 years ago to get off the drugs. THEY were what was causing a lot of the pain. By the way, I had no trouble mixing alcohol with the drugs either and no, that is not a good thing to do. it makes it worse.

In the end here's the deal. I've been in chronic, often times totally debilitating pain (for years at a time) for most of my adult life. I don't take pain meds at all anymore. Maybe a Tylenol with Codeine #3 once in a great while. Pain meds are fine for short term acute pain. After a couple of weeks max you need to let your body take care of it and it will.

I don't drink alcohol all that much anymore. I find it interferes with my sleep which is hugely important. I exercise although not as much as I need to.

The fall 3 years ago left me with little strength in my hands, numbness in hands and feet and my feet a dropped (they point down) which causes me to fall a lot. I trip over flat surfaces. It sucks but as bad as it is, I look around and see and know it could be so much worse. I have a good friend who has been bedridden for years now. I see others steering their wheelchair by a tube in their mouth. That could have been me not once but twice.

So I do what I have been doing since the drunk driver hit me in my late 20's. F*ck the pain, go on with my life and continue to explore, learn, do. It's a lot to do with attitude, your attitude.

yes, after the last one I had to slow down a lot, takes forever to get projects done and I get frustrated. Oh well. Deal with it.

I like so many others have back pain (4 surgeries so far) and obviously knee pain. In the USA there is a relatively new procedure called RFA (Radio Frequency Ablation). In short, they figure out which nerve is sending the pain signal and if you don';t need it, then they burn it up with Radio frequency. In/Out procedure. In the knee there are 3 nerves they can burn out of 11. They ones they can't you need to motion. I'm having my knee done very soon. had my lower back done last year. On the plus side it's quick and can be very effective for getting rid of. most of the pain. Negative is that the darn nerves can grow back which means you get to do it again. Much less invasive than surgery which is why my knee is so bad. It's not the artificial joint , it's all the damage from the scalpels going in.

I'm seeing a pain specialist at University of Washington. They are not into making money so it's not that kind of a clinic. My team is phenomenal, all they want is to make me feel better.

I found out accidentally about 2 years ago I could sail a boat. I was shocked and amazed. I bought my Island Packet, Packet Cat 35 about a year ago and will be leaving to go cruise this spring. Setting the boat up so that I can do everything from the cockpit and have an electric windlass. Time to fulfill my lifelong dream/goal of sailing around the world.