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Old 31-08-2010, 01:59   #16
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I have found the best method is to book in for a week or two and don't leave. By that stage they know you are not feral and you help other yachts tie up etc and you offer some excuse that you will leave fairly soon.
Keep your decks clean.
Then ask for a 3 monthly rate.
A lot of Marinas are doing it tough in QLD at the moment, you can negotiate better deals as a lot of marinas are struggling.
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Old 31-08-2010, 03:26   #17
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I think you have nailed it Jim, but I do disagree, that we are powerless to change it. Cruiser’s unite and do not allow this disease to spread!
I struck a blow for the cause recently with Greg Combet the Australian Federal Labour MP. He was walking around the Newcastle foreshore with his estranged wife who is one of my neighbours and I had my boat moored at what I am assuming is a public wharf adjacent the old customs house. She was silly enough to ask me if I was allowed to stop there, which is typical of the oppressive authoritarian mentality I expect from most Novovastrians. Not saying she meant to offend or is a bad person; more like this is the way people around here are conditioned to think. I just answered something along the lines of,
“No: you are not allowed to do anything in Newcastle except work long hard hours for repressive bosses while your kids get addicted to ice and take to prostitution. Only place a working class man is allowed to have a boat around here is Lake Macquarie!”.
As Greg is the member for the Lake Macquarie area, which kind of put a spanner in the works when his wife bought a house in the neighbouring Newcastle electorate and an ex head of the unions he kind of got the underlying cynicism. While he kept quiet he had this big grin happening. I am also hoping the comment made him aware of the effect of all the contemporary political correctness on yachtsman in his electorate and proud of the fact the average bloke can still enjoy a sail on the lake.

As a lawyer, it would also be interesting to go back to the second reading speech and have a look at the policies behind the prohibition of livaboard boating in NSW. Maybe if the legislation is lost somewhere in some obscure MSB regulation this might be a bit harder to discern (and I might have to brush up on Admin Law!). Still, it seems that with the current housing shortage and exorbitant rental prices around Newcastle and Sydney this prohibition is nothing but hypocritical?
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Old 31-08-2010, 05:11   #18
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Most marinas have individual power/water meters for each slip, cruising boats usually shower, do laundry and toilet on board if a pump out station is handy, so that would just leave wear and tear walking on the dock.

I have never been charged a premium as a live aboard anywhere in the world, so this seems a pretty light justification to me, that we should resist.
Most in Australia dont have individual meters- at least not the ones I have been to. It also is the case that very few are actually commercial enterprises. Most are parts of clubs, the one my boat is in for example is a not for profit company attached to a not for profit yacht club.

You wont be charged a premium to live aboard at our yacht club marina - you simply wont be allowed to live aboard. The increased costs in water, power, insurance, maintenance, council rates, state government lease charges, capital depreciation, staff amongst others are simply not acceptable to our club members.

There are some club marinas nearby where you can live aboard and some commercial marinas as well.

As for doing laundry on board - i would guess that one in a hundred boats in our marina has a washing machine onboard - or less.

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plus a chronic shortage of marina berths along the coast.
BBen to manly lately - you can get a marina berth free with a haircut.
.

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As to the legality, it seems to be vague, but who can afford to challenge hte rulings in court?
Of course its legal, its private property - we can admit who we like and charge what we like. In my marinas case that charge is based on the actual cost of running the show each year. But of course its legal.
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Old 01-09-2010, 22:40   #19
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I lived aboard at Dockside Marina in brisbane for about 5 months total end of last year begginning of this one. Great place, ferries can be a bit annoying but it's a shortish walk to the valley or a ferry into city, could bike it pretty quickly. Barbara(who runs the place) is very nice and good bunch of boaties staying there. There is a liveaboard fee but it's pretty reasonable. Think it was an extra $60 a month or something. And electric meters are unmetered.

Only downside is you're at a marina ^^. Oh and this one is a few hours up the brisbane river.
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Old 02-09-2010, 00:51   #20
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Australia is such a draconian place to live. Under Income Tax Asscement Act of 1997, a vessle/houseboat can be classed as a dwelling, due to CG (capital gains) being able to be collected.

TD 92/158 - Income tax: capital gains: can the following comprise a 'dwelling' and therefore be eligible for exemption as a sole or principal residence (i) a structure built underground? (ii) a yacht? (iii) a tent? (Current for 17 September 1992 to 2

"A yacht may, under certain circumstances, constitute a mobile home or houseboat and therefore, a 'dwelling' for exemption purposes. Provided that the level of facilities is such as to make the yacht habitable, the yacht will be accepted as a 'dwelling'."

As it is legally a 'dwelling', a warrant is required to gain entrance.

MSB enforce acts of parliament, which has the force of law, it is not the law. Common and natural law is the law. Simple word trickery to keep the serfs in order.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:42   #21
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Yeah dockside is a great place (apart from the ferries)
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:43   #22
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G'DAy Pelaic,

I think the problem lies in the transient nature of cruisers -- it takes a really big jolt to get them to slow down and fight something. The infamous "section 21" rule in NZed is one where a determined yottie faced down the gov, took the issue to the NZ supreme court and won! Not everyone has the gumption, talent and skills to do this sort of thing.

The folks who have the biggest gripe with the marinas aren't the cruisers, but are the non-cruising liveaboards. These poor buggers are stuck between the high price of real estate in Oz, the rapacious marina accountants and their place of work. A little pressure from the gov with "no liveaboard" rules reinforces the marina's position... "give us some money and we'll look the other way, mate". I'm glad that we are not dependant on these facilities!

I'm also glad that you were able to organize the other super-yacht folks and overcome the greed at that Auckland venue. I fear that we mere mortals, with less-than-super-yachts might find the going pretty tough trying to do such a thing... our fuel and dockage bills aren't quite so lucrative to the management! But, I'd be willing to give it a try.

Perhaps the downturn may bring a bit of sanity to the arena, for as I said, we've seen a fair number of empty berths in some marinas along the east coast of oz in the last few months. Not, however, holding my breath!

Cheers,

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Old 02-09-2010, 15:55   #23
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Australia is such a draconian place to live. Under Income Tax Asscement Act of 1997, a vessle/houseboat can be classed as a dwelling, due to CG (capital gains) being able to be collected.

TD 92/158 - Income tax: capital gains: can the following comprise a 'dwelling' and therefore be eligible for exemption as a sole or principal residence (i) a structure built underground? (ii) a yacht? (iii) a tent? (Current for 17 September 1992 to 2

"A yacht may, under certain circumstances, constitute a mobile home or houseboat and therefore, a 'dwelling' for exemption purposes. Provided that the level of facilities is such as to make the yacht habitable, the yacht will be accepted as a 'dwelling'."

As it is legally a 'dwelling', a warrant is required to gain entrance.

MSB enforce acts of parliament, which has the force of law, it is not the law. Common and natural law is the law. Simple word trickery to keep the serfs in order.
You are getting confused here positron.

Something can be defined as (in this case) a dwelling under one piece of legislation but not under another. What matters is the definition relevant to the legislation covering the situation at hand.

And in the case of marine law in Qld, the criminal statute law is it - there is no common law in the criminal jurisdiction in Queensland, hasn't been since Sir Samuel Griffith wrote the first Criminal Code the century before last. Fully codified criminal law.

But I am not getting your point I suspect.
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Old 02-09-2010, 16:01   #24
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The folks who have the biggest gripe with the marinas aren't the cruisers, but are the non-cruising liveaboards. These poor buggers are stuck between the high price of real estate in Oz, the rapacious marina accountants and their place of work. A little pressure from the gov with "no liveaboard" rules reinforces the marina's position... "give us some money and we'll look the other way, mate". I'm glad that we are not dependant on these facilities!
Ahem, its all about the head lease in Qld. Our Marina company does not own the marina per se. What we own is a sub sub lease from the Govt. Consequently the lease can be conditioned in many directions. There are reasonable limitations to what conditions could be imposed, but the reality is if the lease documents indicate that people cant live aboard, then thats that.

Or in the case of our marina, the members of the company by virtue of their ownership of a sub sub sub lease decided to not allow live-aboards.

Again though - our marina treasurer is not rapacious the company operates on a not for profit basis and fees and charges are struck on the basis of actual costs and long term maintenance needs.
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Old 02-09-2010, 16:26   #25
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the cost is going up due to the way the Qld. Gov. has added the cost over so many sectors which has doubled our expenses. Water, power & lease of the ocean water (which otherwise would be worthless to them) where marinas were built. Every yearly costing by Qld Gov is now directly tied to the charges & there is no end to it. These charges have to be stopped but how!! They are just doing what that want!!
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Old 02-09-2010, 22:45   #26
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Mid next year Bill. You get to vote then, but make sure you tell them why first.

You are very correct however, the vast majority of the cost for our Marina is the charges from Govt -primarily the lease charges.
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Old 02-09-2010, 23:43   #27
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There is a fairly serious amateur fishing lobby developing in Qld.
They were quite prominent during the recent election in Redlands.

The current government destroying our previous way of life (no camping on the beach, no fires on the beach, the government spending our money cutting down of coconut trees because they are not "native", fishing restrictions which don't make any sense at all.
There is even talk of banning drinking on board, even though you are anchored for the night.
Now that's serious.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:07   #28
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They already think they have banned - well not quite banned - but at least limited - drinking at anchor beau. They (MSQ) claim that the legislation surrounding drink driving extends to boats at anchor. I dont think it does, and have written an article or two in Coastal passage to that extent.

And before anyone gets too excited in no way am I encouraging being half sloshed in charge of a boat. I merely dont think their legislation interpretation is correct.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:23   #29
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I believe it does but not if on a registered mooring or in a marina.
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Old 03-09-2010, 17:07   #30
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Bill - thats is MSQs advice - on mooring is okay in marina is okay - at anchor is not. Thats not what the Act says though. It talks of a vessel being used or apparently about to be used for the purposes of navigation. What MSQ says is irrelevant - it is what the law prescribes

For a long discussion on this point you can read my article

Here
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