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Old 14-10-2012, 02:03   #1
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Liveaboards: the final solution.

Reading the "captain Jay" thread I realized that it seams likely that every port has a Captain Jay or two. The arguments seam to revolve around poop, derelict boats, and vagrancy in general. Where do you draw the line between vagrants and mariners? As for poop, it seems to be a regional concern thats spreading to areas with lower population that didn't realize they had a problem. Most of the anchorages around here are surrounded by houses with untreated septic fields yet the small number of people on boats are expected to treat their poop. I don't really worry about regulation because I live in Canada and the government is ineffective at enforcing regulation here(why lie? I'm not alone in this). The problem I find most disconcerting is abandoned vessels that are adrift or sunk and pose a navigation hazard. How do we go about differentiating the hobos from the sailors? Not too far from me there's a prostitute living on an old float home anchored in the bay. Who's to say she's not a valued member of the community? Maybe she pays more taxes than I do, although I would think she has more write offs, being self employed and all. There's a bunch of threads on here about what port to avoid, due to regulations. Most of those regulations are designed to deter vagrancy, yet they seem to have an impact on the rest of us, or at least that seams to be the perception. It also seams that fitting in at a marina gives you a pass. None of the marinas here have sewage pump out facilities, yet they (wink wink) tell you not to dump sewage. They also try to deter boaters from anchoring in the bay by discouraging people from allowing them to moor dinghies and parking cars near the water. It seams as though it will eventually come to a rich vs. not rich debate. Those who can afford the best aren't interested in seeing crappy old boats in their (seasonally of course) harbour. I sometimes feel that the only reason the fancy new fifty foot boat crowd tolerates the rest of us is because they know that when they leave at the end of the season, we're still here, with their unattended piece of fibreglass fanciness. They should be afraid, when I was a teenager there were some great parties thrown on my grandfathers 42' power boat. He always had his suspicions but when you have a dozen grandchildren its tough to pin the blame. Home owners get upset if the boats moored in front of their houses aren't pretty enough. People with a view like the anchorage to be picture perfect in the morning light, while they sip their Starbucks Venti Mocachino. As you've already figured out this has devolved into a drunken rant with no direction so I eagerly await you're input.
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Old 14-10-2012, 03:30   #2
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

I'll bite.

First, nice website. Second, nice boat. I don't know how much it cost, but it is every bit as picture perfect as the latest 50 foot yachtominium.

Dumping sewage is gross. I once swam in a Virgin Islands anchorage and watched with horror as a soiled bit of toilette tissue slowly gyred to the bottom. But, that was in a crowded location with warm, still, clear water and marinas nearby to pump out the tanks. In a different situation I can see how dumping could be reasonable.

It is possible to keep an old boat clean and pretty. Just because it is old, inexpensive, and in need of a long list of repairs does not mean it cannot be scrubbed and tidy. I suspect most people on shore have no idea how much one boat costs versus another, think a tiny daysailor is every bit as charming as a 50 foot gold plater (maybe moreso), and don't care if it's Christopher Buckley or the local bartender on the boat. What upsets people is having the aquatic equivalent of a pile of blankets under a bridge floating near their back yard. I can't blame anyone for that.

Bottom line: I think you are right - it can be a rich vs poor thing. But the answer is for everyone concerned to be respectful of others and behave respectably themselves. You hit it yourself – fitting in gives you a pass. Perhaps vagrancy is as vagrancy does.
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Old 14-10-2012, 04:12   #3
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
Not too far from me there's a prostitute living on an old float home anchored in the bay. Who's to say she's not a valued member of the community? Maybe she pays more taxes than I do, although I would think she has more write offs, being self employed and all.
Next time you are "passing" , invite her to CF .
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Old 14-10-2012, 07:26   #4
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

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Next time you are "passing" , invite her to CF .
Even better, get her phone number
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Old 14-10-2012, 07:43   #5
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
Reading the "captain Jay" thread I realized that it seams likely that every port has a Captain Jay or two. The arguments seam to revolve around poop, derelict boats, and vagrancy in general. Where do you draw the line between vagrants and mariners? As for poop, it seems to be a regional concern thats spreading to areas with lower population that didn't realize they had a problem. Most of the anchorages around here are surrounded by houses with untreated septic fields yet the small number of people on boats are expected to treat their poop. I don't really worry about regulation because I live in Canada and the government is ineffective at enforcing regulation here(why lie? I'm not alone in this). The problem I find most disconcerting is abandoned vessels that are adrift or sunk and pose a navigation hazard. How do we go about differentiating the hobos from the sailors? Not too far from me there's a prostitute living on an old float home anchored in the bay. Who's to say she's not a valued member of the community? Maybe she pays more taxes than I do, although I would think she has more write offs, being self employed and all. There's a bunch of threads on here about what port to avoid, due to regulations. Most of those regulations are designed to deter vagrancy, yet they seem to have an impact on the rest of us, or at least that seams to be the perception. It also seams that fitting in at a marina gives you a pass. None of the marinas here have sewage pump out facilities, yet they (wink wink) tell you not to dump sewage. They also try to deter boaters from anchoring in the bay by discouraging people from allowing them to moor dinghies and parking cars near the water. It seams as though it will eventually come to a rich vs. not rich debate. Those who can afford the best aren't interested in seeing crappy old boats in their (seasonally of course) harbour. I sometimes feel that the only reason the fancy new fifty foot boat crowd tolerates the rest of us is because they know that when they leave at the end of the season, we're still here, with their unattended piece of fibreglass fanciness. They should be afraid, when I was a teenager there were some great parties thrown on my grandfathers 42' power boat. He always had his suspicions but when you have a dozen grandchildren its tough to pin the blame. Home owners get upset if the boats moored in front of their houses aren't pretty enough. People with a view like the anchorage to be picture perfect in the morning light, while they sip their Starbucks Venti Mocachino. As you've already figured out this has devolved into a drunken rant with no direction so I eagerly await you're input.

I'll tell you one place where I draw the line: vagrants aren't allowed to poop on the street, esp. on children's playgrounds.

I can't account for what surrounds your waterfront but we do have sewers here. This is one reason why Jay became a flashpoint, when people found out absolutely for certain what Jay had to be doing.

Again, I can't account for your marina, but since Captain Jay was the focus of this, here's the truth: if his boat had been moveable, he could have taken his boat into the public marina for a FREE pumpout any time they were open, seven days a week. In addition, they would pump out a porta potty with a big enough outlet. I have a friend who just bought one. It was only $89.

I haven't heard *any* of "The boats aren't pretty enough." They've complained about unattended sailboats that have no mast, collect rain (and, hence, mosquitoes), and are bird sanctuaries -- so they stink if your boat goes by.

Partying is one thing we worry about. There's been a derelict, stripped, coastal cruiser stuck on the edge of Clam Bayou for quite some time.

These are all legitimate concerns, but the reason attention has been focused on Jay is that he has focused people on these very specific issues. Then you can throw in animal abuse/neglect.

I have great sympathy for the people who can't find their way through life. There's one in my family who has been there and conceivably could end up there again. I know what happened to him and I have nothing but sympathy. I know the circumstances and I do not see how his life could have turned out any other way. I have tutored adults who can't read, and the struggles they have gone through make me ashamed of getting upset over my current water tank issue. I'm not the only person in town having a problem with access to clean water, but those others have a whole lot more on their plate than me.

Captain Jay has been a lightning rod that has focused issues, which is good, because specific problems are far easier to fix than unfocused, vague ones.
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Old 15-10-2012, 16:26   #6
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

In the UK we have 'Travellers" these are people with an alternative lifestyle to perhapse the 'norm' they are perceived to live on welfare (DSS) though I am sure that there are some that live without benefits. They live in motor homes and caravans (RV's & trailors) and then there are a very small community that live on boats, they sometimes also fit into the alternative lifestyle group but they are not generally perceived as dss spongers that the former group I have described fit into.
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:02   #7
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

Well, I've got nothing intelligent to add, but a rant thread, about a rant thread that has been beaten into the ground...except this one has prostitutes!

I'm in!

We should be making bets about how long it will be before it's shut down.

I'll give it a day!


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Old 15-10-2012, 17:19   #8
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

You will find most of the complaining about boat derelicts in the same areas that feature gated communities and lots of retirees with nothing better to do than watch their neighbors and complain. These are the same communities that are in the news for ordinances that prohibit parking a pickup truck in your driveway, leaving your garage door open, painting your house the wrong color, or mounting a mailbox that doesn't meet code. I can't ever recall someone complaining about a derelict boat in Massachusetts, where my boat is currently moored in the summer. On the other hand, the social services and the security net are much stronger in the Northeast than in many parts of the country, and keeping a boat is much more expensive, and we have the long winters, so living on a boat is not such an attractive proposition for someone who is really a homeless person looking for shelter. As I said in the other thread, if you follow the story back to its source there is often someone seeking to make a profit by forcing boats at anchor to tie up to a dock or mooring. Plus, it really isn't a major problem in 99% of the harbors anywhere, including Florida, despite what you read on here. Only a very few harbors have had any issues with this. Most of the same folks who cause problems on the water would also be causing problems on land, but I don't see people shouting about closing down public parks because somebody sleeps on the park benches. The difference is that boaters are a tiny minority, and often they are transient and therefore have no political clout, therefore they are very easy to pick on.
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:21   #9
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

living on a boat brings you much closer to the homeless population. after that you begin to ways to convince yourself that dumping raw sewage is ok. after that where do you draw the line? bottom line is their is no free ride even in a boat.
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:29   #10
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

By the way, the thread subtitle, "the final solution," gives me the creeps. I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not, but I don't think the problem is as dire as all that.
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:30   #11
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

" As you've already figured out this has devolved into a drunken rant with no direction so I eagerly await you're input."
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I love that one.....lol..
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:38   #12
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

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" As you've already figured out this has devolved into a drunken rant with no direction so I eagerly await you're input."
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I love that one.....lol..
some people troll websites like this ,posting threads like this with the express interest in stirring the contents of the holding tank!

i guess it must give them a sense of self worth
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:45   #13
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

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By the way, the thread subtitle, "the final solution," gives me the creeps. I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not, but I don't think the problem is as dire as all that.
Put them to good use...
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:55   #14
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Re: Liveaboards: the final solution.

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By the way, the thread subtitle, "the final solution," gives me the creeps. I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not, but I don't think the problem is as dire as all that.
Me too; it struck me as rather ominous, although I am sure, or at least hope, it was not meant in the same context as die Endlösung.
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