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Old 24-02-2015, 12:02   #76
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Re: Liveaboard's

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You can't seriously be suggesting $6000/year in property taxes for a 100 acre farm is benefiting society in some way?

I know who that benefits. It benefits the corporations with the agricultural monopolies by making it financially unfeasible to survive on small scale farming.

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I wasn't suggesting that, but in truth it does benefit society. Just how do you figure schools etc are funded? Far as the big/small farms go we in live in a free market system when cost for goods determine this and I'm sure you have been shopping in the same stores as the rest of us for the most part.

Now what does any of this have to do with boating?
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Old 24-02-2015, 12:09   #77
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Re: Liveaboard's

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Far as the big/small farms go we in live in a free market system when cost for goods determine this

not really....Free Market wouldn't be paying Farmers not to plant.
Milk subsidies, and subsidies for everything else, Tax breaks for Walmart to build in their city, Free Obamaphone handouts, on and on....

Free Market....ha ha ha....not when the Government picks winners and losers.
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Old 24-02-2015, 12:15   #78
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Re: Liveaboard's

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You can't seriously be suggesting $6000/year in property taxes for a 100 acre farm is benefiting society in some way?

I know who that benefits. It benefits the corporations with the agricultural monopolies by making it financially unfeasible to survive on small scale farming.
Hmmmmm, my property taxes are set by elected county officials not an agriculture monopoly.

Small scale farming has turned around a bit do to CSAs but small scale farming will not feed the world. Farms have been getting larger and larger in size for a very long time due to economy of scale. Humanity cannot survive on small scale farming unless large numbers of humans die.

Later,
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Old 24-02-2015, 12:22   #79
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Re: Liveaboard's

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I wasn't suggesting that, but in truth it does benefit society. Just how do you figure schools etc are funded? Far as the big/small farms go we in live in a free market system when cost for goods determine this and I'm sure you have been shopping in the same stores as the rest of us for the most part.

Now what does any of this have to do with boating?
I think it relates to boating in the sense that people were comparing the price to live aboard to the price of land ownership? There has been much discussion on this thread about poverty in the live aboard community in the USA and possible causes for it.

The cost of core agricultural products (dairy, wheat, eggs)in my country are fixed by government agencies so that agricultural economy remains viable and not controlled by a multinational corporations monopoly. And no, I don't shop in the same grocery stores as you.

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Old 24-02-2015, 12:31   #80
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Re: Liveaboard's

In my case it has noting to do with farming actually, it has every thing to do with a shrinking tax base, yet an ever increasing liability that the taxes have to cover. My town I have heard described as an "entitlement" town.

Dan my property taxes essentially doubled about 5 years ago, property taxes weren't raised, just my properties value was. Heck everybody knows we are in a housing and land boom, right?

Yes I went to try to contest it, I spent all day in the court house watching a video loop about how property taxes were there to make sure we all paid our fair share. Eventually I was let into an office where a clerk asked me about ten questions that I could have easily answered in a letter, but that's not allowed, you have to come to the courthouse and wait for the clerk.
The writing was on the wall, I couldn't afford to take endless days off from work to sit at the courthouse and watch their video about paying my fair share while I waited to answer another ten questions, I had to work and earn money to pay the taxes, they could simply wait me out.

What has this to do with cruising and living aboard? Well just bluntly more and more people can't afford to live any other way. I used to have the dream of retiring and living on my land, perhaps on giving the kids enough to build a house on and be surrounded by family, but I can't afford it and I don't see the taxes decreasing either.

My new plan is to just leave, I'll let you guys sort it all out.
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Old 24-02-2015, 12:49   #81
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Re: Liveaboard's

I bought a house in A southern State. $5000 and cheap taxes.

I decided to put up a new house in its place. Then I found out the taxes liability on a new house. I could however, leave 3 walls of the original house standing and it would escape the new taxation.. So with permits in hand and several town officials in attendance, we demolished the house and left 3 walls standing. 2 brick and one wood frame. We got signed off on it. The builders got to work. I had periodical spot checks from the inspector sometimes on a drive by twice a day.

Needless to say, we put in new walls all round. On the final check we had left a feature of one of the original brick walls open in a corner when you walked into the kitchen, It looked nice. However it was just the bricks cut in half and cemented to the new wall underneath. The town was dying in term of revenue. One month my water bill was $18 dollars and the next it was $350. They said I must have a leak...... I didnt and even photographs of the meter was not enough to stop the enforcement of the payment... Then I heard a rumour that taxes were going up for everyone.

A town dweller was looking for a house in my area and was more than happy to pay what I asked, which was reasonable, so he bought it immediately....

I was so glad to walk away from small town survival thuggery, but less glad when I found out it was a nationwide pastime..... go figure.
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Old 24-02-2015, 13:15   #82
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Re: Liveaboard's

I believe it's somewhat simple, with all the giveaway's etc., somebody has to pay, and with all the smart people around that know how to avoid taxes etc., the number of somebodies is decreasing, while the liability is increasing.

Only way that I can see that I can win at this game, is to no longer play.

So in two years I plan on living aboard and cruising with you guys and girls. I hope to start in the Caribbean, but my dream is to cruise the South Pacific before I die.

Funny how plans evolve
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Old 24-02-2015, 13:27   #83
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Re: Liveaboard's

Really- it's how I wound up living aboard. (Not the taxes- I'm going to drop that subject in the interest of not starting any fights), but cost of living. I was living in a major metropolitan area, single, paying $1600/month. I bought a 30' sailboat for $7000 and moved aboard.

Fast forward to the present, I no longer have my 30 (I have a 35 now), am no longer single and no longer live aboard. For the job I had at the time, the cost of living was just too high for other alternatives.

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Old 24-02-2015, 13:45   #84
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Re: Liveaboard's

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I call it the Feudal Lord State of America, we just switched out the King, nobles and knights for the President, Congress, and NSA. How much longer before they started declaring the rights of "Prima Norte".

You must be one of those evil 1%-ers!
Silence you surf, go back to the fields and toil away for W-2 wages and pay your Obamacare taxes, just don't try to go to the Dr to use that insurance, surprise, no Docs in you town will take it...ha ha ha
I love your enthusiasm and railing against "the man" is one of my favorite pastimes as well. I hope you taught your kids about "Prima Nocta" because as bad as "Prima Norte" sounds.....but hey I'm just a "surf" so what do I know?
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Old 25-02-2015, 16:24   #85
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Re: Liveaboard's

A house does not make a home. Of all the many apartments and houses I have lived in, I can count the ones I felt as homes on two fingers. Naturally the last one got torn down to build a fancy condo building.

I technically pay rent and live in a "home" but consider myself homeless.

I think buying a boat will change that. As long as I keep it in good repair no one can tear it down to build condos. Also if the neighborhood loses its character, i can set sail and find another place with character.

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Old 28-02-2015, 09:52   #86
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Re: Liveaboard's

For those of you who believe, a little prayer that I can sell the house and move to my soon to be "NEW" Bristol 32. I had a good showing today.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:49   #87
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Re: Liveaboard's

To return to the original topic.....

THE PLAN when I bought my 34' ketch was to learn to sail and be ready for an extended cruise at retirement 12 in the future. The tutoring I have received so far basically went the way of actively sailing my boat, which I happen to live in.

Within 45 minutes of deciding to go, I am letting go the dock lines. The goal is 30 minutes. Securing tarps, moving a garden onto the dock, and removing pictures from the bulkhead prevent reaching that goal.

I don't look down on my neighbors. All, ALL, of my liveaboard neighbors have been so helpful and encouraging. I still learn something everyday. And when I see a boat with a tarp on it, I see a resource for crew! You can bet that the person with a stationary sailboat will say yes to going out for a few

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Old 01-03-2015, 11:32   #88
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Re: Liveaboard's

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To return to the original topic.....

THE PLAN when I bought my 34' ketch was to learn to sail and be ready for an extended cruise at retirement 12 in the future. The tutoring I have received so far basically went the way of actively sailing my boat, which I happen to live in.

Within 45 minutes of deciding to go, I am letting go the dock lines. The goal is 30 minutes. Securing tarps, moving a garden onto the dock, and removing pictures from the bulkhead prevent reaching that goal.

I don't look down on my neighbors. All, ALL, of my liveaboard neighbors have been so helpful and encouraging. I still learn something everyday. And when I see a boat with a tarp on it, I see a resource for crew! You can bet that the person with a stationary sailboat will say yes to going out for a few

Bobby
S/V Wandering Star
Tacoma, WA
That's impressive. Seems it takes two of us that long just to do the breakfast dishes, check the engine fluids, remove the canvas covers and unplug from shore power - no pictures, no garden, no tarps.
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Old 01-03-2015, 13:13   #89
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Re: Liveaboard's

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That's impressive. Seems it takes two of us that long just to do the breakfast dishes, check the engine fluids, remove the canvas covers and unplug from shore power - no pictures, no garden, no tarps.

Beyond LOL, CHORTLE and SNORT. When I lived in a 1 bedroom apartment, it was a disaster. In my apartment, there was a model train layout instead of a dining room table. There was a gun bench with reloading machines (pleural!), smelter, bullet molds powder locker, buckets of brass. The book mobile stopped at my place on the way out of town to load up. Dirty dishes abound and the stove was always a good place to set the mail. If there was a flat surface, it was covered.

Transition 3 months. I live in about 130 sqft. Every dish is usually washed immediately after eating. Mail is sorted and most of it never makes it to the boat. Everything possible is done on line. My books have been purged to a few favorites. I jettisoned most of my clothes and all of my furnishings. The model trains are in a storage locker that is getting less full each week as I sell stuff. Never have I been so fastidious. Anything that is getting between me and a chance on the water is being purged. The only thing on the outside of the boat is my bike, which is quickly set on the dock.

I am working 2 jobs, and I fall behind. But as the 1 day each week I get to play approaches, I do a little bit here and a little bit there to get caught up. This last 4 months has seen huge changes in my life. In ways I cannot even begin to explain. But, I went from almost being on the show Hoarders to living a monkish life uncluttered of material stuff. The key word being LIVING!
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Old 06-03-2015, 23:15   #90
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Re: Liveaboard's

We Surrendered, we tried our Hearts out to be good Hard working Citizens, which we taught our kids to be, and are very proud of their efforts, and they are doing very well, and while I wood not ever want to be the one to tell them that they are just chasing their Tails.
As we, my Wife and I have learnt how the Powers to be, have already worked out the future of mankind, this is just our thoughts, and even though our kids have seen us walk away from Business, and Society in General, they know how much we love them all. We Hope we are wrong with our vision of the Future, but when we see what is happening in to days World, we believe we are right. Our life living on board our small Catamaran, is not easy, the challenges have been Great, certainly not easy, But we feel as Free as a Human being could feel, very scary at times, but waking up to a calm anchorage, makes it so Awesome.
The uncertainty of ones life on land is more scary to us, than what ever Nature has to deal up to us, as we feel we have a chance, at least to read the signs.



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