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Old 08-03-2012, 19:03   #1
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Liveaboard in the Med - Should We ?

Bucketlist: cruise / liveaboard in the Med.

My husband is applying for a job with the US military in Italy. (We are US citizens. Would be covered by SOFA - status of forces agreement - but am unsure how it covers a boat.)

A friend of his suggested we buy our liveaboard boat once we get to Europe and use our housing allowance to pay for the boat. At this point it would just be a floating home that we could take on weekend trips. Once the 3yr job ends, we would want to stay/cruise the Med for a few more yrs.

I have tons of logistical questions...
- Mono or cat? We were thinking cat but are concerned re marina space and costs? We've seen lots of cats in Med charter fleets but not so many in marinas. In Croatia it was 1.5 x dockage for a cat.
- US / non-US flagged boat? Does it matter?
- Should we get a boat with the EU VAT paid / not paid?
- What about insurance?

Nothing in stone yet. Just sold our racing sailboat and need to sell the pwrboat and house. Lots of options.

Would love to hear your ideas. THX so much.
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Old 08-03-2012, 19:31   #2
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

Where in the Med are you going to work from? I lived in Sicily for a time so know that area.
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Old 08-03-2012, 19:45   #3
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

@ jacob30
the job would be in Naples.
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Old 16-03-2012, 04:51   #4
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

I would say get an EU VAT paid boat. Make sure you get the original papers showing the VAT was paid; you will need these when you sell on too.

I'd say yes to insurance too. If you would insure your home, you should insure your boat. Good luck!
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Old 16-03-2012, 06:59   #5
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

the real question is whether you have ever spent enough time on a boat to be able to answer the question whether YOU can live on a boat?
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Old 16-03-2012, 07:31   #6
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

Friends of mine keep their boat in Turkey in the Antalya area. I went to visit them last summer and enjoyed a fantastic vacation, beautiful country, very friendly people, very low crime rate. As an exemple, my friend left his boat alone for 2 years in the marina, outboard unlocked and dinghy on deck, nothing happened, I could not do that at any of my home marinas. When we purchased things in the stores, they were very caution in making sure we understand the change they were giving us, living is inexpensive and marinas are gorgeous, huge travel lifts, but marine store are rare in that area. In Kas, my friends had a year free on a two year contract since it is a brend new marina with some oustanding features, suchs as a huge pool, luxurious bathrooms, manucured landscaping and outstanding docks made of recycled plastic with stainless steel bolards. I was very impressed.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:11   #7
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
the real question is whether you have ever spent enough time on a boat to be able to answer the question whether YOU can live on a boat?
You're right to ask, Don. We have both been sailing since childhood. Coastal cruising and foreign charters for the past 20+ years. Hubby is a 6pax Capt. and I used to teach offshore sailing at the Naval Academy. I think we are as ready as we'll ever be.

Just unsure of the non-sailing stuff - paperwork, marinas, taxes, etc and wanted input from (you) the cruising pros. Don't want to show up in Italy and find out our liveaboard plan was unrealistic.
ps used to have a Hunter. Still members of HSA#1.
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:52   #8
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1. Most countries in europe will have a limitation on how long you can stay in before having to import the boat. If u plan to live in one place for a while it could rapidly become a big Pain in the ass. You dont want to have to sail out of territorial waters and back in every six months and do all the paperwork for it. Defo worth talking to some italian lawyers or tax advisors about it. Eu flag would be much easier. Unless of course ou are cruising the med's south or east coasts, which are outside of eu, then it doesnt matter.

2. Cats have more living space. Monos sail better. Long discussion and about 5000 threads on this forum on the subject. Personally am a mono kind of guy. But if i mostly lived on her to go to work every day on shore, with only an occasional sail, would seriously consider a cat. Of course you should expect to pay more for a cat in marinas. Berthing fees vs comfort - very subjective thing, depends on your budget, only you would know.

Good luck, sounds like fun!!!
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:57   #9
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Oh yeah, and cruising here is awesome. Been chartering around the med my whole sailing career - turkey, greece, croatia, france... Would second the turkey lover. Been doen there like 5 times already, would not hesitate to do it again. Just love it. People are nice, food, weather, anchorages... Croatia is a close second.
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Old 16-03-2012, 18:04   #10
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Remember the OPs partner will be in the EU under SOTA rules. He is exempt from all local taxes.

Dave
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Old 21-03-2012, 02:07   #11
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should We ?

OK the Med can be an experience and yes many are fantastic. My biggest gripe with Med is you need to understand that many marinas are packed to the rafters and tight, i mean tight. Docking in a 10 to 15 k wind stern too between boats is scary and not for the faint hearted. They have lazy lines now but many still get you to drop anchor and back in off the pick. Check out utube for lots of moments in the med to see what i am talking about. As far as living aboard its great but limited to stay times and dollars given season.
I sailed from Croatia through Italy into France and Spain to leave the Med. Met lots of great folk but the common thread is speak the language!!
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Old 21-03-2012, 06:13   #12
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should We ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrasnov View Post
1. Most countries in europe will have a limitation on how long you can stay in before having to import the boat. If u plan to live in one place for a while it could rapidly become a big Pain in the ass. You dont want to have to sail out of territorial waters and back in every six months and do all the paperwork for it. Defo worth talking to some italian lawyers or tax advisors about it. Eu flag would be much easier. Unless of course ou are cruising the med's south or east coasts, which are outside of eu, then it doesnt matter.

2. Cats have more living space. Monos sail better. Long discussion and about 5000 threads on this forum on the subject. Personally am a mono kind of guy. But if i mostly lived on her to go to work every day on shore, with only an occasional sail, would seriously consider a cat. Of course you should expect to pay more for a cat in marinas. Berthing fees vs comfort - very subjective thing, depends on your budget, only you would know.

Good luck, sounds like fun!!!
Again incase the OP is confused. SOFA rules apply , this is a NATO wide agreement to facilitate inter country transfer of personnel. The normal tax rules do not apply and hence should be ignored. my understanding is you do not become a EU tax resident and you can bering in your possessions tax free.

once the SOFA period ends you will be treated as a US tourist, Vat rules will apply and visa rules too.

Dave
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Old 22-03-2012, 03:38   #13
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Re: Liveaboard in the Med - Should We ?

Hi from germany, just one important point. If you want to liveaboard the most challenging item will be to get a berth near Naples. i understand you will work in the city and so you have to find a berth nearby. This can can cost you up to 8000 EUR a year depending on the waiting list and marina style and the boat size. This should be checked first, to get a suitable boat is an easy way in the MED, 1000 boats are available. Please note that winter month can be chilly and stormy so the marina has to be well protected and you need some decent heater system on board.
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