Liveaboard in Sweden

[tjb1982]

Last year I acquired a 1999 Hunter 450 and I've been working on fixing the boat up over the past year. It's in pretty good shape at this point. I got it from my dad, who (mercifully) left it with a brand new Yanmar diesel engine and a new autopilot system, among other things, and I've put a lot into it myself upgrading the comfort-type stuff, aesthetics, etc. My goal last year was to get the boat into condition to sell, and in the process decide whether or not to make boating a part of my life.

I have decided to continue down the boating path. Completely unrelated to that, though, and before the boat came into my life, I was planning to move to Stockholm for a few years, and I haven't changed my mind on that. I'm looking into options for what to do with the boat. I found a place called Halcyon that told me they could have it delivered to Sthlm for ca. $11k, which doesn't include airfare for the crew, dockage, fuel, etc. but does include provisions and most other stuff. It would probably cost (I'm guessing) $15-17k all told. That's the best price I've been able to find.

I'm curious about two things:

1. is it even feasible to live aboard in Sweden, particularly with an American boat?

2. if needed, could I sell it there (assuming I don't need to get top dollar or anything)?

Both of those questions also seem to lead to a higher level question, which is:

1+2=3. Should I just sell the Hunter here in the US and buy/rent a different boat in Sweden? What are the factors I should consider when making this decision?

[South Bound]

For what it's worth, the sea freezes over in the Stockholm area most winters, so people haul out their grp boats for sure. In southern Sweden you might be able to survive but would still need a very efficient heating system onboard.

[tjb1982]

Thanks for your reply South Bound. I didn't realize that the sea itself freezes over around there. Sounds similar to Chicago, but I assumed there would be enough of a difference between seawater vs fresh to combat the ice. I did notice that one marina in Mälaren provides in-water storage with some kind of ice-mitigation system (bubbles, probably?), and there's a marina in Indiana (near Chicago) that has a setup like that, and it's my understanding that Chicago winters are colder than Stockholm, but not by much if that's even true. It would probably behoove me not to try to stay in the water over winter and instead, as they say, 'do as the Romans do.'

[Dockhead]

The last few winters, the sea has not been freezing all that much around Stockholm. People do live aboard. You need bubblers and good heat and insulation. Berthing is very cheap.

A big question though is "why"? You won't want to be sailing up there during the winter. I would put the boat on the hard and live on land, myself. Or sail South.

I sail summers in the Gulf of Finland, but sail all the way back from there (1500 miles upwind) to the UK to keep the boat there during winters. Because unlike in the Baltic, you can sail year round in the English Channel.

As to whether you should take your own boat over or not -- only you can decide whether it's worth it. It might be if you've spent years getting her just the way you like her, but might not be if you'd just as soon have a nice Hallberg-Rassey. Personally, I would either sail her across on her own bottom, or sell her.

[tjb1982]

Thanks Dockhead. That makes a lot of sense and that's neat to know that there's such a difference between the Baltic and the English Channel.

One reason why would be that I've heard that finding housing on land in Stockholm is very hard. Waitlists for years, etc. I've not explicitly inquired about semi-permanent housing, so I can't speak from direct experience, but I thought it might be quite cost-effective to liveaboard, and I love living on the boat, so I think that's why I'm looking into this.

[john61ct]

Given the high expenses involved in these decisions, I'd just pop over for a week or two at your earliest convenience, survey some marinas and talk to the locals. A comparatively cheap investment in advice based on local knowledge and real experience.

Pretty sure a USian boat's value would be reduced over there by the wiring for 120V shore power.

[tjb1982]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Given the high expenses involved in these decisions, I'd just pop over for a week or two at your earliest convenience, survey some marinas and talk to the locals. A comparatively cheap investment in advice based on local knowledge and real experience.

Pretty sure a USian boat's value would be reduced over there by the wiring for 120V shore power.

I completely agree and that last part about power is a reasonable hypothesis. My plan is to go over there for the max 90 Schengen days to interview for jobs and sort these other things out, and then come back to the states to take the boat up the ICW to Annapolis before going back. For one, I'm pretty sure I could use the experience (I'm fairly new to boating, generally), but I've also read that Florida is a buyer's market, and that Annapolis is a good place to sell a boat on the east coast.

[boatpoker]

Don't worry about US AC wiring. Being for 120VAC the conductors are heavier and far above what is required for 220v. Your microwave may not work (50Hz vs. 60Hz) but so what.

Is Stockholm any colder than Toronto where I lived aboard for 20 years ?

[tjb1982]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Don't worry about US AC wiring. Being for 120VAC the conductors are heavier and far above what is required for 220v. Your microwave may not work (50Hz vs. 60Hz) but so what.

Is Stockholm any colder than Toronto where I lived aboard for 20 years ?

Excellent. As it happens, I don't have a microwave yet anyway. Are there any other components that could be problematic? A/C, hot water heater?

That picture is super cool. Yeah, I've read data that suggests Stockholm is more moderate than Chicago in both winter and summer, and I'm guessing Toronto is probably similar to Chicago, if not a little colder.