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Old 23-06-2019, 06:24   #1
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Liveaboard Fees - again

I don't really understand liveaboard fees making sense. I'm currently in a marina for a month. If I stay a second month there is a $150 "liveaboard fee". This is a 35% adder for what? Am I suddenly going to be using more resources etc. the second month over the first?

Now I used to kind of understand this as "liveaboards" use more electrical. But it costs less to power a 3 bedroom house than a $150 liveaboard fee. Plus I have noticed that boats just sitting in a slip with no one on them still have their air conditioners running. So it isn't like a liveaboard boat is really using any more power than an empty boat.

Guess that leaves water. I can come to the dock and fill my water tanks for free and that will last us 3 weeks on average. We probably use more water at a slip because it's "right there" and easy to refill. Near as I can tell this results in us using about 50 gal/month more water. Is the 50 gal of water that I can get free normally worth an extra $150? The "weekender" boats will use more than that when they come back in from their 3 hour boat ride to wash the boat off.

The only thing I can see my liveaboard fee covering is the extra wear and tear on the dock boards because they get walked on more.

Rant over, everyone go back to important "stuff"
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Old 23-06-2019, 07:31   #2
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Some increase in fees certainly makes sense as you acknowledge. And then of course supply and demand determines how high that fee can be.
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Old 23-06-2019, 07:44   #3
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I don't really understand liveaboard fees making sense. I'm currently in a marina for a month. If I stay a second month there is a $150 "liveaboard fee". This is a 35% adder for what? Am I suddenly going to be using more resources etc. the second month over the first?

Now I used to kind of understand this as "liveaboards" use more electrical. But it costs less to power a 3 bedroom house than a $150 liveaboard fee. Plus I have noticed that boats just sitting in a slip with no one on them still have their air conditioners running. So it isn't like a liveaboard boat is really using any more power than an empty boat.

Guess that leaves water. I can come to the dock and fill my water tanks for free and that will last us 3 weeks on average. We probably use more water at a slip because it's "right there" and easy to refill. Near as I can tell this results in us using about 50 gal/month more water. Is the 50 gal of water that I can get free normally worth an extra $150? The "weekender" boats will use more than that when they come back in from their 3 hour boat ride to wash the boat off.

The only thing I can see my liveaboard fee covering is the extra wear and tear on the dock boards because they get walked on more.

Rant over, everyone go back to important "stuff"
It costs the stadium no more to seat someone in the front row than in the nosebleed seats. Good luck arguing their tickets should cost the same based on your "cost to the business" logic. Successful businesses don't price based on their own cost (except to ensure they are profitable at the end of the day), they price based on what the market will bear for that product.
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Old 23-06-2019, 07:55   #4
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

the better seats have value

what does this have to do with anything in post 1 other than "they can"
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Old 23-06-2019, 08:22   #5
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

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.Successful businesses don't price based on their own cost (except to ensure they are profitable at the end of the day), they price based on what the market will bear for that product.
This. Exactly. They probably have another segment that isn't as profitable and the market will bear a liveaboard fee.

The marina is a business trying to get revenue streams however it can. People all pay the liveaboard fee, so it's working.

Also, liveaboards consume more time. They have more interaction with the staff, any drama they have becomes marina drama, etc.
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Old 23-06-2019, 08:31   #6
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

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.

Also, liveaboards consume more time. They have more interaction with the staff, any drama they have becomes marina drama, etc.
That must be it. I went over to the office the other day to get quarters for the washing machine and the guy had to put out his cigarette to go inside to get.
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:12   #7
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

If liveaboards left the dock regularly for trips...even just an over-nighter....I think they could garner more sympathy from management at marinas... Been there done that...
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:14   #8
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

Most places do not really want live-aboards. Besides the extra interaction and 'drama', a some live aboard boats start to look trashy. There is one in our marina that looks more like the Wanderer at the beginning of Capt Ron than at the end... I spoke with the owner once and he said it takes him a day or so to get his boat able to leave the slip so on the rare times he does he will stay out for a week or so.
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:41   #9
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

The ratty boat in the marina is a different issue than a liveaboard boat imo. The ratty boat problem is not resolved at all by having a "liveaboard fee".
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:44   #10
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

I pay $300 a month in FL. You forget that most marinas A) don't want liveaboards B) You create more trash C) You use more water etc in the showers/head D) As they said "They can"
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:51   #11
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
the better seats have value

what does this have to do with anything in post 1 other than "they can"
Well again, in a capitalist free market "they can" is how a business prices their product. There's no morality or rule that everything must've priced at some cost plus model, and in fact in almost every aspect of the business world things aren't priced that way. Sorry if you don't like it, that's just the way it is and the alternatives probably aren't something most of us would appreciate. That said, you're getting a lot more value out of your 30 days a month in the marina then they guy who visits twice a month for a couple days, aren't you?
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:57   #12
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

I thought it would be a worthwhile discussion but see it's not and instead is going to be a bunch of "it's like" example that don't make sense. It appears the answer is just "because".
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Old 23-06-2019, 10:12   #13
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

$150 per month additional marina fee for a liveaboard.

Let's put that into perspective

Two Starbuck small [i.e., their "tall"] coffee purchases per day $135.00 per month.

A round trip on the Bay Area Rapid Transit [BART] subway to and from Oakland to SF $20.40.

A Big Mac meal at McDonalds - $6.00

Average rental car cost per day rom Enterprise, in San Francisco. $67.00

April 2019: One bedroom apartments in San Francisco rent for $3600 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $4690.
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Old 23-06-2019, 10:16   #14
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

We successfully (so far) fought off a liveaboard fee. All of us from 2 marinas run by the Port showed up for their meetings where they discussed it.

Their stance: we consume more and produce more of everything. Especially garbage. (We pay individually for our electrical consumption). So we took pictures of people from the town dumping construction debris at night and also pictures of weekend warriors throwing 15 bags of party garbage/beer bottles in the dumpster on Sunday night.

Our stance: we provide extra security. I found someone's dinghy that fell off their davits. My neighbor, just last week, saw a fire on one of the commercial boats, grabbed his extinguisher and rushed over to put it out, and then called 911.

Well it all came down to one of the commissioners had some rude words from a liveaboard as he walked to his boat and consequently, we are all slime.

The result: that particular commissioner was unelected and the subject was dropped.

I think you'll find that this is pretty typical. A person or group with some power perceive liveaboards to be one step above homeless and create a "scare" that will be solved with additional money. The truly homeless will go away and the marina will get some added bucks for their kitty. The rest of us will cough up or go looking for the marina that doesn't have the fee.

That would be me...I refused to be punished for choosing to live on my boat.
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Old 23-06-2019, 10:20   #15
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Re: Liveaboard Fees - again

[QUOTE=sailorboy1;2914922]I thought it would be a worthwhile discussion but see it's not and instead is going to be a bunch of "it's like" example that don't make sense. It appears the answer is just "because".[/QUOTE

It is a worthwhile discussion. You are fixated with the idea that all fees should be based on some cost + formula and the readers responses are that the price you pay for your berth (and everything else) is based on the market. If you don't think that is worthwhile information, you are just not paying attention.
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