Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2012, 14:48   #76
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,678
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;853504Anyway, all your examples above... we don't need to communicate any of that because we're both in the cockpit when we are in that phase. I only go forward when we're ready to lower the anchor. All we need is port/strbrd/further/stop/reverse/more revs/abort[/QUOTE]

+1 Exactly

It's not to say there is no scenarios where verbal communications are necessary noelex. It's simply that, in my experience (and others), it is far more efficient and effective to utilize hand signals for anchoring most of the time.

I'm not opposed to technology. I am opposed to poor solutions. On our boat, with our crew (my spouse and I) radio communications are not needed most of the time.
__________________

Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 15:36   #77
.....
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,397
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Dam, i use hand signal's and voice (shouting), and that's just singlehanding.....
__________________

IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 15:46   #78
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,780
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Wow, 300 days a year?! you mean you are at anchor 300 days a year or actually setting the anchor 300 days a year?

.
At anchor 300 days a year, actually 360 days a year with a trip back home every few years with time on the hard for anifouling every 2 years the average is about 310 days a year. The rest of the time we are at anchor, normally moving every few days to a week in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post

Anyway, all your examples above... we don't need to communicate any of that because we're both in the cockpit when we are in that phase. I only go forward when we're ready to lower the anchorNick.
I think a lot depends on the area you cruse. The deserted spots I prefer often have no, or very poor maps ( and I have multiple sources of electronic maps, with paper maps and google earth, pilot books in English, German, and Italialian), but the best information still shows rocks and even islands that do not exist or exist or are not shown when they do exist.
As a general rule you have to approach a new anchorage (and that is most of them) in daylight with a visual lookout.
A lookout at the bow, with the helmsperson concentrating on the Radar/ Chartplotter / Depth works well for us.
Communication between the bow and helm is essential.

In some of the very weedy / rocky anchorages, dropping the anchor involves hitting a small clear patch. Hand signals can do this, but voice communication is much easier. Why not take advantage of this?

In other areas urgent messages like “there is a bommie directly ahead” can be conveyed instantly by voice. If the helmsperson is looking at the Radar , chartplotter, pilot book, map etc the information will not be conveyed if visual communication is the only means of sending the information.

There are other anchorages that we have been in before, or with accurate maps where communication is entirely unnecessary, but if you cruse these areas I would encourage developing an anchoring system that will work even in the most difficult circumstances

Try your communications in storm force winds in the middle of the night and a rainstorm. Can you see hand signals ? The person at the bow will be on there knees hanging on with one hand. If the anchor winch jams will the person at the helm understand this?
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 16:48   #79
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Well maybe , but I anchor over 300 days a year and there is just no hand signal for
There is someone snorkeling 200m from the back off the Hanse to port.
There is a lot of rock / weed here lets try over to the west
There is a mooring chain here, further south looks better.
( To find a patch with less weed) port a bit, forward, hit reverse, dropping.
There is a bomme just in front of the trimaran.
That Beneteau has got 2 anchors out.
How far does the radar show we are from the pier?
What is depth now?
etc etc
Many of the above communication problems seem to assume that the person at the helm is running the show. We do it differently on our boat regardless of whether it's me or Wonderblond on the bow. Our procedure is that the person on the bow is in command at that point, and the person on the helm is following commands that are being relayed via gesture.

Let's assume that I'm on the helm and Wonderblond is in command on the bow. If she sees someone snorkeling off to port, this doesn't need to be communicated. She would merely signal me to stop or change direction. I would do so because that's what the helm's job is at that point, to follow orders, so to speak.

Although it's common, the assumption that the person with the hand on the wheel is in command of the vessel is dangerous. The coxswain/helmsperson on a ship or naval vessel would never presume to be the captain/master of that ship. Likewise, when I have guests or crew aboard and I invite them to steer, that doesn't mean I've relinquished command of my vessel. You want to steer the boat, fine, but steer the course I've indicated.

When anchoring, it solves a great many problems if the person in command is on the bow rather than at the wheel.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 17:01   #80
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,476
Images: 83
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

We bought hands free voice activated communicators just for this. Motorola TalkAbout. The voice activated part didn't work anywhere. Very disappointing. I even handed them to a geeky teenager to try - no use.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 17:23   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: Morgan 462
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjwarner
Uhm, ok. Maybe we are weird, but we set our alarm as we drop anchor. It is part of our regular routine.
We use headsets, Al on the anchor, me on the helm, and when he says he's happy with the spot, I say "ready to mark", and read out the speed until it drops to 0.0knts. I say "0.0,' he says "dropping now" I say "marked" (and set a mark on the chartplotter to use as the anchor mark) and we do what we do to set it in good.
I just thought everyone had a similar method. You're saying most folks don't do something like this? Oh God.... are we anal?
We do it just like you do.
terra57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 17:23   #82
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
We bought hands free voice activated communicators just for this. Motorola TalkAbout. The voice activated part didn't work anywhere. Very disappointing. I even handed them to a geeky teenager to try - no use.
We tried these as well when they first came out. The sound of the chain rattling out would activate the microphone of the person on the bow, which meant that he/she couldn't receive communications from the person at the helm.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 17:29   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: Morgan 462
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferShane
I discovered a month back that sometimes it does not matter what you do when others anchor on top of you, your boat can end up in all sorts of danger. This happened at a particularly perilous anchorage where the most used cruising guide clearly states has very poor holding with many boats being wreaked on the beach. Then you always have the chance of loosing your rigging on the jetty to the south or getting smashed on the breakwater to the north.

Due these hazards in rough or questionable weather there is really only room for two boats in this given area. Yet it is not uncommon top get up in the morning to discover someone has anchored right on top of you pushing in-between a number of boats. The last person who did so to me tripped my anchor causing my boat to end up right in the wave zone against the breakwater. It was not pleasant to come back from shopping to find my home and most of my earthly possessions meters from destruction, especially when I knew I had done everything possible to leave them securely anchored.

It was also very evident that the offender had pushed into the middle of the anchorage so he could leave his boat unattended for the weekend. What he thought was good holding was nothing else than his anchor caught directly under mine!

So the thread does not end up and argument, I don't want to go into any more details except to say it was obvious the other person did not have a clue what he was doing. As such, I am almost willing to forgive him. What annoyed me much more was the attitude of some people who like to consider themselves "more experienced", enough so that they will adopt similar practices even assuming the role of "Anchorage Monitor" when this is their first visit to the place. I know one thing though, next time someone anchors uncomfortably close I am going to have no hesitation confronting them about the potential dangers even if they do think they "know better"!

The other detail worth mentioning is that when something like this happens - well as long as you still have your boat - the great thing about being an anchoring live-aboard is that you can pull anchor and sail off to somewhere hopefully a lot more peaceful. In the case above this is exactly what I did!
Surfer
The strategy we use is, after we tell them they are too close, is to bring out the camera and make it obvious we are documenting them anchoring on us, for insurance purposes. They usually get the idea.
terra57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 19:58   #84
Registered User
 
SurferShane's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA
Boat: L. Francis Herreshoff Ketch
Posts: 1,129
Images: 45
Re: Liveaboard anchoring.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'DAy SS,

Couldn't have been Coffs Harbour, could it??

We've taken to anchoring on the other side of the old wharf for just this reason... too many boats in the best protected (and that's not very good either) spot. Sure wish that they had put just a little overlap on the breakwaters...

Cheers,

Jim
Yes, I knew someone would pick the place! The biggest reason I try to anchor on the northern side is that I row my tender to shore and often jump over for a surf in the northern corner when the swell is up, so anchoring to the north makes life a lot easier.

Nonetheless, I can't understand why more boats don't do what you do and go to the south where there is a lot more room and usually no other boats. I have anchored there before and the holding is no worse than on the north side of the jetty. In the six or more weeks this year anchored at Coffs while cruising the coast fishing/spearing the Solitary Islands I saw one other big yacht nearly end up on the breakwater and another dragged into my boat. Both had tried to squeeze in when there was ample room on the southern side and both had tenders with outboards.

The point really is that if you are an anchoring live-aboard you need to be just as aware of the anchoring practices of other boats as of your own. When in doubt, if there is an alternate uncrowded anchorage, skip the sheep mentality and take the safer option?
__________________
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. - Voltaire
SurferShane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 22:17   #85
Registered User
 
sctpc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: saga kan walker 31ft
Posts: 545
Send a message via Skype™ to sctpc
Re: Liveaboard anchoring.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Seems to me there's a lot of very paranoid about dragging cruisers around who don't know how to anchor... D.O.J..... Anchor School opportunity for ya..
I know you got told for this and you wanted to stir the pot, BUT its kinda true I rarely anchor and have not in realty been shown as we ether dock or use our mooring. when I did the RYA it was chuck it in pull back drive forward pull it in. YOU PASS.

So if you do bring that boat to AU you can teach me
__________________
May there always be water under your boat,

sctpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 23:47   #86
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,780
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Many of the above communication problems seem to assume that the person at the helm is running the show. We do it differently on our boat regardless of whether it's me or Wonderblond on the bow. Our procedure is that the person on the bow is in command at that point, and the person on the helm is following commands that are being relayed via gesture.
.
Agreed the person at the bow is in command . If using hand signals alone the person at the bow is generally in total command directing the boat with little input from the helm.
It is only if you have reliable voice communications that the person at the helm gets much of a say once there is someone at the bow. The person at the helm has access to the information from the depth sounder, radar, GPS, chartplotter, maps and pilot books. If you can include them in the anchoring decisions they can provide valuable feedback during the late stages of anchoring. In adverse conditions , such as anchoring at night in a crowded anchorage with poor visibility the combined information from the bow and helm makes anchoring easier and safer
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 00:23   #87
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Quirimbas Archipelago, North Mozambique
Boat: Catalac, sailing catamaran, 10 meters
Posts: 29
Re: Liveaboard anchoring.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I think that all you need to do to call yourself a senior sailor is to go to the User CP, click on "edit details," and then scroll down to "user title." You can call yourself the King of Mozambique of you'd like, or even the Senior King....

Don Casey is a great source of do-it-yourself tips, but his anchoring advice pales in the face of anything the Senior King of Mozambique would tell you. Using Casey for tips on anchoring is a bit like tuning in to Dr. Phil for tips on how to invest in the Dow Jones.
Correction! if you read my post well i dont use Don Casey as anchor ref as i immediatelly after claim to have dragged on 3 anchors, details of that obviously no interest to you. Then i suppose my point of condescending posts by senior sailors is not considered. Cynical advise on making me king of Mozambique means what? That you support the post of boatman61 i quoted? Dont worry i will never steep to such in similar circumstance, certainly not if i were CF adviser.
quirimbas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 06:39   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 31 - Cielo Azul
Posts: 359
Images: 3
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

I don't understand what all you are communicating about, once you have selected the spot (which you can do from the cockpit), the only signal you need to give is when anchor is down, to start backing down. Either one should be able to confirm the anchor is set or not? As a singlehander, I only go back to the cockpit to back down on the anchor, otherwise all the action is at the bow.
Tom
teejayevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 07:00   #89
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 21,946
Images: 2
pirate Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
I don't understand what all you are communicating about, once you have selected the spot (which you can do from the cockpit), the only signal you need to give is when anchor is down, to start backing down. Either one should be able to confirm the anchor is set or not? As a singlehander, I only go back to the cockpit to back down on the anchor, otherwise all the action is at the bow.
Tom
And there we have it... simplicity
as a singlehander myself (barring deliveries) I get where I want to be then mooch up front and drop the hook... I do not use engine.. I pay out by hand and stop and give a tug every now and then to aid bedding... when I arrive at the required amount of chain for the job I tie off and go back to the cockpit and eyeball marks on the shore...
If I have crew I still do the anchoring... if there's gonna be an injury its gonna happen to me... not my crew.. it can be dangerous up there..
And don't let my current boat size matter to any of you critic's...
I have used this method on all my boats.. including my Cherubini 37... UK, Med, Carib, US of A.... I also haul in by hand.. with a little help from the main..
Mind... over 37ft I think I'd want a windlass... seems my strength is not what it once was...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 07:23   #90
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,678
Re: Liveaboard Anchoring .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by teejayevans View Post
I don't understand what all you are communicating about, once you have selected the spot (which you can do from the cockpit), the only signal you need to give is when anchor is down, to start backing down. Either one should be able to confirm the anchor is set or not? As a singlehander, I only go back to the cockpit to back down on the anchor, otherwise all the action is at the bow.
Tom
Agreed

Again, this is not to say there aren't more complex situations, or when the plan goes off the rail -- in those cases verbal communications with the helm is probably necessary. But in most anchoring situations on our boat (a 37-footer) we have found that a well-practiced routine does not require voice communications. In fact, we moved away from the technological solution b/c we found that in most cases it was less effective, and simply made the job harder.

As always, I'm not saying my way is the only way (as too often happens on CF). Boats, crews, and cruising areas will be different for everyone. If a method works for you, then that's great. Good for you. Good to know.
__________________

Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, anchoring, liveaboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Liveaboard Fees sailorwoman Liveaboard's Forum 8 09-12-2011 14:07
Crusing , Passage Making and General Liveaboard Videos fyodor1564 General Sailing Forum 20 30-07-2011 15:33



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.