Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-10-2013, 13:59   #31
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

If you wear rose coloured glasses all you will see is roses.

The figure of $1,200pw that I quoted is my estimate of the total cost of living on a large catamaran in one of the most expensive areas in the world. It includes depreciation and loss of earnings from (or interest on) the purchase price but not insurance. I cannot see how it can be other than unbelievably expensive.

If you wish to cost boat ownership by cherry picking the figures that you like then that is your choice.
__________________

__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 14:16   #32
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,328
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mausgras View Post
Actually, there probably are some yotties out there that do spend that sort of money on their effluent lifestyle.

Not me though! Pass the champagne over will you sweetie.!
Either ironic or sarcastic. OK.

2012 was probably my worst year ever; 2 engines and linkages, new canvas, bottom paint and sundry items. With slip rental and utilities, about 8% of value. Generally, I'm about 4-6%, maintaining boats well enough to sell them for more than purchase cost. If I lived aboard the would be more expenses, I'm sure, but I doubt I would average over 8%. Most years I wouldn't know how to spend that, unless you include non-boat lifestyle expenses.

But that's not trying to live-aboard in a crazy expensive place. Couldn't say. Yet as much as I like my boat, apartments are better when winter comes.
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 14:29   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,453
Images: 69
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
My rule of thumb is that long term costs for a boat run to about 25%pa of it's good condition value, so your $250k cat is going to cost $50k pa or about $1,000 per week. Add on marina fees for a (apparently very rare) live aboard cat slip and you're looking at at least another $10k pa or a total of at least $1,200 each week.

I'd be guessing that your "crappy 1bedroom apartment" is both secure and close to where you work so you'd need to add commuting time and car expenses to the above.

My experience is that you should consider the opposite of what you are planning. That is buy a small apartment as close to where you work as possible. Work as hard as possible, pay off your apartment, and then when you can't stand it any more buy a boat and go cruising.

Boats are great as liveaboards if you're not working. I know people do liveaboard and work but my opinion is that for most occupations it's not practicable.
It all comes down to the location. For instance, in some of the mining centres in Qld, like Mackay and Gladstone, it would be far cheaper to live on a boat in a marina, than to rent a house or unit. In other places the reverse may be true.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 15:36   #34
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
If you wear rose coloured glasses all you will see is roses. The figure of $1,200pw that I quoted is my estimate of the total cost of living on a large catamaran in one of the most expensive areas in the world. It includes depreciation and loss of earnings from (or interest on) the purchase price but not insurance. I cannot see how it can be other than unbelievably expensive. If you wish to cost boat ownership by cherry picking the figures that you like then that is your choice.
And what are the opposite of rose colored glasses as that seems to be the pair you are wearing. Seems you also cherry picked the figures on the very high side?
From my experience in the US your figures are ridiculous, but that may not hold true where you are located
__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 16:20   #35
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,328
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
If you wear rose coloured glasses all you will see is roses.

The figure of $1,200pw that I quoted is my estimate of the total cost of living on a large catamaran in one of the most expensive areas in the world. It includes depreciation and loss of earnings from (or interest on) the purchase price but not insurance. I cannot see how it can be other than unbelievably expensive.

If you wish to cost boat ownership by cherry picking the figures that you like then that is your choice.
Wow. That certainly is not the way most would have read that post. That scope should have been stated.

Finance cost is quite variable. Depreciation? Every boat I have owned (3 in 28 years) has gone up, though less than inflation. Earnings? During this last realestate slump, depending on when you got in and out you could still be deep underwater, and the market is like that as well.

Better to stick with direct operating expenses, since anyone with $250,000 already understands capital cost and they are not specific to boats.

--------

I'd still be in the mid-teens based on home equity finance rates (of course, that 's cheating from the OP's point of view). And I agree, from a shear practicality view point, there are better options in most cities. The only way it makes any sense, to me, is if sailing is an addiction; addictions are not logical. My boat is my toy and my vacation home--I keep the costs under control, consistent with maintaining value.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2013, 16:26   #36
Registered User
 
MBLittle's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: St Thomas, USVI
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
If you wear rose coloured glasses all you will see is roses. The figure of $1,200pw that I quoted is my estimate of the total cost of living on a large catamaran in one of the most expensive areas in the world. It includes depreciation and loss of earnings from (or interest on) the purchase price but not insurance. I cannot see how it can be other than unbelievably expensive. If you wish to cost boat ownership by cherry picking the figures that you like then that is your choice.
Most people don't credit a depreciating asset account on their personal balance sheet. To do so would be impractical for the vast majority of people.

Interest on the principal can be a tax write off and for most people that would negate the cost of the interest paid and therefore shouldn't be included in an expenses estimate to begin with.

I was never cherry picking numbers. That was all you.

The OP was talking about liveaboard in the PNW on a 40something catamaran. Not a 63' power yacht in Monte Carlo. To equate the two is a logical fallacy and is dangerous advice for someone seeking specific knowledge.

Your estimates very well could be the reality for some people, but I would argue those people would be such a small percentage of the cruising/liveaboard community throughout the world as to be ridiculous to use it as the "rule of thumb" for the other 99.8% of people.
__________________
MBLittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2013, 00:41   #37
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?



Marina Cove Apartments3480 Granada Ave, Santa Clara, CA 95051
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2013, 00:50   #38
Registered User
 
Alecadi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Marathon FL
Boat: Endeavour 35, 1984,
Posts: 937
So?
Math teachers have very good retirement plan in Australia...!!!!!!!
__________________
People spend time putting little boats in bottles, me I put bottles in my little boat...
Alecadi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2013, 06:02   #39
Registered User
 
MBLittle's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: St Thomas, USVI
Posts: 542
...O.....K....That's helpful....
__________________
MBLittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2013, 22:48   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
I've found that not asking for a liveaboard slip and just taking a regular slip is easier. If you call around for a liveaboard slip, the answer is always no. Ask for a regular slip and your in. That give the harbour master time to get to know you and offer a liveaboard slip. Least wise I hear that's how some folks do it.

A mono hull will be less expensive to purchase and less to dock. Cats generally pay twice as much as they are twice as wide.. Plus liveaboard fee. So a 40' mono might be $600-650 ish plus elec. A cat could be $900 ish and an end tie, which are HARD to get.

Marina Bay almost always has a few liveaboards open, but that's Richmond which is a LONG drive to MV. BART is near by though.

Coyote Point in san mateo, might have slips.
Thanks sailorchic34 this is very helpful advice. A new Catalina 385 sailboat sells for 250k and so used half that. I'm planning on a 2 week sailing course to learn and then decide long term boat ownership is the way to go. I might get lucky finding a nice boat for sale with a slip available. There are lots of parallels between boat, airplane and home ownership except that you cannot live in a plane very well but they are fun to fly.
__________________
cruisernewbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2013, 00:02   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

A Catalina 36 will cost you less than 50k and is more than enough space for a couple to live aboard. Even a 2nd cabin for guests.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2013, 09:31   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 96
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Thanks roverhi, need to find a seller with a live aboard slip thats the goal now.
__________________
cruisernewbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-10-2013, 09:43   #43
Registered User
 
SV Maclas's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Boat: Sinek, Pilothouse, 43ft
Posts: 105
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisernewbie View Post
Thanks roverhi, need to find a seller with a live aboard slip thats the goal now.
That is a smart way to do it! That way you don't have to move around until a permanent slip opens up.
__________________
SV Maclas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2013, 11:23   #44
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay, California
Boat: Pacific Seacraft 37
Posts: 105
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisernewbie View Post
...I might get lucky finding a nice boat for sale with a slip available...
Be careful if you are responding to an ad which includes a statement like "Slip included with sale of the boat." Usually, this is a misrepresentation and the marina will often not authorize the transfer of the slip. Happened to a friend of mine when a deal on a 64 foot monohull with "slip included" fell through because the slip wouldn't transfer. The boat I bought had a "Comes with slip in Berkeley" tag line. Not. Just ain't so easy.

If you buy your boat through a broker, though, it can make a big difference if you are going to slip in his/her area as they have a lot of juice with the local harbor masters. I could have slipped anywhere in the east or north SF Bay because of this.

Also, SailorChic has good advice. Get a regular slip and ease into the liveaboard. Eventually a slip will come up and you will be in the right place at the right time with the right connections. Some marinas allow 14 nights a month. I know one guy who has two slips...one in Sausalito and one in Alameda and he oscillates back and forth on a permanent basis.
__________________
The Smokester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2013, 20:28   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 96
Re: Live on catamaran cheaper than rent apartment?

Thanks this is great advice.
__________________

__________________
cruisernewbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.