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SaltyMonkey · 21-10-2010, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Cockpit cluttered? Not here:

Good god what a mess! What is that green clutter doing in there??? And all that wood that needs to be removed? And that giant wheelie thing?

mintyspilot · 21-10-2010, 10:55

I really liked this one.

Colvic Victor 40

I'm sure it needs work doing it (it's boat!!) but I really like the layout.

First Mate · 21-10-2010, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance835

Thanks to all. I know we have a lot to learn and take safety serious and therefore will never "out sail" our abilities. We have several friends who are experienced sailors who will be advising and teaching us.

I think we are leaning toward the Ketch.

Is there more living space aboard a ketch versus other boats. We like some of the older boats with the heavier teak cabinets. They appear to be tough and would take everyday abuse better. I build fine furniture for a hobby and will be taking some yatch interior building course (possibly at the Port Townsend shool of boat building).

Thanks to all again. You have been very helpful.

The teak interior on our boat is very beautiful, and I enjoy living in it. I always feel a little cramped because I am still decompressing from having lived in large houses - raised in a 4000 sf home, then lived in a couple of 1500 sq ft homes, a 2500 sq ft home and finished out in a 1700 sq ft home right before we moved on board. However, that said, a 42' boat is a big boat! and for a boat it is roomy. I miss having a real kitchen the most, but I am adjusting.

Quit worrying about the speed and keeping up with others. I doubt that will really make a difference to you once you are aboard. What you will like about your larger boat, which will be 40' or more with a ketch, is how stable it is. Very nice. I'm no longer missing a catamaran for that reason. There just is not that much heel under most normal conditions in these larger yachts. Of course, if you want square footage, just go get a catamaran and be done with it, if you can afford one in good condition (there are cheap ones out there but they are project boats that will cost you the same in the end anyway - $250K for 38' to 42' fixed up)

If you make it to Port Townsend, send me a private message and come over and look at our boat. We will very likely have it up on the hard this winter in Port Townsend, getting the rigging replaced, the mast inspected, the fuel tank replaced, the head replaced or repaired,....on and on. We would be happy to show you our boat, as we will be living on it on the hard.

One thing to look for in a live aboard or cruising vessel is the size of the cockpit - which is basically the recreation room equivalent on a boat. It needs to be "relatively speaking" - large. A small cockpit won't be fun if you are living on the boat.

A last tip is to look for boats in the late 70's and early 80's because they have solid fiberglass hulls and the wonderful teak interiors. You can't get em like that anymore - at least not the solid glass hulls - unless you have them custom made for big bucks. Our surveyor noted that a replacement cost for our boat is $400,000 new, but we paid $85K for it. A very reasonable price for a boat this size with such lasting qualities. It was in very nice aesthetic condition when we bought it, so we haven't had to live in an ugly or uncomfortable boat while we replace aging systems.

Right now, we are beginning to estimate how much it will cost us to replace and upgrade all the systems we want to tweak. We could just keep on keeping on with what we have, but we want to take it to Alaska and possibly the South Pacific. We need a very robustly maintained and upgraded vessel for that. So far, I have conservatively estimated $35000 to complete this vessel to the level I want. So, based on my experience in the past with my conservative estimates, that means about $50,000. Add it up - that's a bargain price for a luxurious, robust 42' passage maker, ketch or otherwise.

Cheers and happy hunting

**Hudson Force** · 21-10-2010, 14:13

[QUOTE=sneuman;544801........Ketch....... mizzen taking up room in cockpit..........[/QUOTE]

This is certainly not a ketch characteristic, but simply an inconvenience of some, usually smaller, designs. My mizzen is steped within my aft cafin shower and may be used only if one is interested in shower pole dancing. Personally, it's out of my way. I favor Rebel Heart's respionse, "They all are great."

barnakiel · 21-10-2010, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

Hey, did I meet you this summer? Are you wintering at Brands?

Yes, I am wintering, but no () idea where the Brandy is ;-)))

barnie

goboatingnow · 21-10-2010, 18:54

In my experience, theres no justification for Ketchs in modern boats with modern sail handling. Cutter rigged Sloops ( yes I know these arnt exactly cuttters) are the best bet. IN heavy weather you need the sailing centre of effort to be close to the centre of the boat, not at the ends.

IN reality Ketches came about due to racing rules allowing the Ketch and Yawl sail area to be discounted and due the mechanical restrictions on Gaff mainsails. None of these are relevant today. The mizzen is just an expensive radar mount.

Dont believe me, read up on Beth and Evans conversion from a Pacfic Seacraft Ketch to a Van de Stadt Sloop. Its also the same reason that virtually no ketchs are manufactured today. Theres just no need, The dont sail better, they go to windward poorly and off the wind a good sloop will still beat them

dave

**sneuman** · 22-10-2010, 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my experience, theres no justification for Ketchs in modern boats with modern sail handling. Cutter rigged Sloops ( yes I know these arnt exactly cuttters) are the best bet. IN heavy weather you need the sailing centre of effort to be close to the centre of the boat, not at the ends.

IN reality Ketches came about due to racing rules allowing the Ketch and Yawl sail area to be discounted and due the mechanical restrictions on Gaff mainsails. None of these are relevant today. The mizzen is just an expensive radar mount.

Dont believe me, read up on Beth and Evans conversion from a Pacfic Seacraft Ketch to a Van de Stadt Sloop. Its also the same reason that virtually no ketchs are manufactured today. Theres just no need, The dont sail better, they go to windward poorly and off the wind a good sloop will still beat them

dave

Dave,
I agree with you, but I believe the "rule beating" design was only the yawl ... and that's why you find, well, about zero of them today. The ketch rig goes back much further.

barnakiel · 22-10-2010, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my experience, theres no justification for Ketchs (...) Theres just no need (...)

There is also no justification for organic farming - Dutch large scale production model beats it hands down, and guess what, no justification for Haute Couture whatsoever - a pair of China made jeans is so much practical.

There is no justification for millions of things, and yet.

If you want to sail an ugly sloop while somebody else sees beauty in a ketch - there is no justification to this fact either.

b.

highseas · 22-10-2010, 08:06

A ketch nor a sloop is ugly.It comes down to practicality for the individual.

barnakiel · 22-10-2010, 08:45

Stop this practicality thing PLS ;-) All sailing is impractical per se. A motor boat is more practical than a sailboat. That's why it has been invented ...

I mean - practicality counts, but so do other factors.

b.

garymcg · 22-10-2010, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

There is also no justification for organic farming - Dutch large scale production model beats it hands down, and guess what, no justification for Haute Couture whatsoever - a pair of China made jeans is so much practical.

There is no justification for millions of things, and yet.

If you want to sail an ugly sloop while somebody else sees beauty in a ketch - there is no justification to this fact either.

b.

There's plenty of justification for both organic produce and haute couture, but more importantly there is a maket for them, that's why they're produced. The widespread adoption of roller furling killed off demand for new ketches; if people wanted them, builders would build them.