Just purchased first liveaboard, need major refit advice (37' wooden ex fishing boat)

[jawshuwah]

Originally Posted by Moufflon

WC / shower to main bedroom is important, (night time) ladies hate people to know their business, our WC/ Shower is 2 to 3 paces away from any berth.

So are you saying the main bedroom should have an ensuite WC/shower, or that the WC/shower should be away from the main bedroom and all other berths? This is a question I have been struggling with - do I turn the v-berth into a stateroom with ensuite, or do I make a nice sized head elsewhere in the boat and give myself more space in both?

Arguments for/against head/shower combos? I like the idea that it both saves space and cleans itself when I shower.

With the shape of my boat there is no need to raise the floor to get away from the hull shape, all floors except the V-berth sit where the hull is widest.

[Cheechako]

Based on that layout I'm thinking:
-Convert the forward head to a shower stall. It's down below for privacy and small.
-Convert the old galley to a head, easy access to the deck when at sea etc.


But really... which galley is best? If the newer galley isn't that hot good spot for a head also...

[jawshuwah]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Based on that layout I'm thinking:
-Convert the forward head to a shower stall. It's down below for privacy and small.
-Convert the old galley to a head, easy access to the deck when at sea etc.


But really... which galley is best? If the newer galley isn't that hot good spot for a head also...

The newer galley is nothing to write home about, I would consider doing that, the one issue being that would put it right in front of the stairs and perhaps less conveniently located for storage... hmmm perhaps on the starboard side though and put seating to port. That would make a great place for a head.

The one reason I had thought to put a shower in the forward cabin area is then it would be above the waterline, allowing me to take long, luxurious showers when in port without running two pumps (fresh water demand pump and shower sump). Is this worthwhile or a pointless rabbit hole?

[jawshuwah]

Ok here's my rough drawing of one possible new layout... thoughts?

[Steadman Uhlich]

Photos tell a lot.

Post some photos of your boat (outside profile, inside shots etc. )

[Cheechako]

I always liked the type of Dinette like you have now. Great to just sit there and have a cup of coffee looking at the water. I think the suggestion to use your boat for a while is a good one. It's easy to dream of big changes, but the reality is they take 3x as long as you think. Once you use your boat for a while and a long list of important things grows, these pipedreams become a lower priority. You could just put a shower in the existing head. :>)

[jawshuwah]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Photos tell a lot.

Post some photos of your boat (outside profile, inside shots etc. )

Yes, I will! Sorry for the bad ones above... better ones coming.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I always liked the type of Dinette like you have now. Great to just sit there and have a cup of coffee looking at the water. I think the suggestion to use your boat for a while is a good one. It's easy to dream of big changes, but the reality is they take 3x as long as you think. Once you use your boat for a while and a long list of important things grows, these pipedreams become a lower priority. You could just put a shower in the existing head. :>)

The dinette could be good, but it is on a raised platform with a storage bin beneath. This makes it uncomfortable to get in and out of. It also has a vertical wooden back, making it not a comfortable place to hang out. The table has raised edges and the support is not 100% stable.

The head as-is is too small to add a shower - you can barely get inside to pee. It is barely usable and the hoses probably need replacing too as it smells awful.

I also would like a shower sooner rather than later. I'm a land person converting to liveaboard... Having two kitchens, one of which is just taking up space, also really needs to go right away.

I'm curious how many other people are down on propane? One person mentioned it, and I've always been against it on boats myself, but a lot of boats seem to have propane. How big of a deal is this, with adequate safety (propane sniffer alarm, shutoff valves, etc)? I would gladly switch if there was a convenient option... the diesel stove taking 30 mins to get warm isn't quite that.

[Cheechako]

Most my boats have had propane. I love it. As with anything (especially on boats) pay attention, be careful.

[TrentePieds]

The arrangements you sketch are fairly standard in small fishboats of this vintage. This arrangement is dictated by the need for a fishhold which now, obviously, no longer exists. The only thing you cannot really move are the main bulkheads.

Look up the arrangements of so-called "tri-cabin" or "trawler" yachts. Lotsa them on HolyMotherNet. You will find that, generally, they have a "V" berth in the focsl with a simple heads adjoining. This is the "guest room/kid's room". Midships is a combination saloon/wheelhouse c/w galley, and aft is a "master stateroom" with a double bed centred on the centerline of the boat, tho sometimes turned thwartships. That's fine in a power yacht, though it wouldn't be so good in a sailing yacht on passage. Adjoining is a heads c/w shower.

Very often you can gain a bit of room in the fwd heads by letting it stick in under the instrument console in the wheelhouse given that the wheelhouse is "up a floor". All kindsa tricks to the trade :-) You won't be able to design these kindsa things on the fly while working in the boat. You need to draw them out carefully to scale in a "3-view" of the hull - profile, plan and sections. To produce that you'll need to "take off the lines" (make an accurate 2-dimensional (and dimensioned) representation of the hull's 3-dimensional shape) if you want accuracy and no surprises. There are people here who can tell you how to do that :-)

Because the "stateroom" is in the widest and deepest part of the hull, the roof of it is normally the "back porch" where you do your out-door living. The wheelhouse will stick up higher, of course, than the "quarter deck", and the roof of it becomes the "flying bridge".

Don't bother to argue with success - little personal touches here and there are fine, but the basic lay-out is the same in all successful designs in this size range :-)
Many, many years of experience by many, many yotties from "the dark side" and by many, many, yachts builders sez that the arrangement I have outlined is generally the most useful, satisfactory and pleasant one in a "stink pot" in this size range.

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

@ #17

Ah! Just saw your revised sketch. You are getting hot :-)

But don't trust these simple computer sketching programmes. They will bite you on the butt every time because they are not dimensioned, and the various bits and pieces of the sketch are not shown in their correct relative sizes and relationships

Looks like by "autonomus discovery" your are working towards the arrangements experience has shown to be best.

Good on you!

About propane: TrentePieds - being just a little toy ship - has propane. All there is really room for. And it's okay as long as you treat it with respect. In a boat like yours, the bottle(s) should be in a chest on deck and that chest should be vented overboard. Within the chest, right next to the regulator on the bottle, should be a solenoid "shut off", and that solenoid valve should be controlled from a switch next to the stove. Soon as you no longer need the stove lit, you turn off the solenoid by means of the switch and let the gas burn out of the line. Then you close the valve on the stove and go to the bottle and shut off the manual valve on top of it. Always, always keep your bilge sniffer active so if your system has sprung a leak while you were off the boat, the sniffer will tell you as you come aboard, before you turn on the solenoid and play with open flame below decks. And for good measure use your snozz to verify what the sniffer tells you.

In a wooden boat, sticking your snozz in the bilge a coupla times a day is always good policy even if you don't have propane :-)

TrentePieds



TrentePieds

[jawshuwah]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Looks like by "autonomus discovery" your are working towards the arrangements experience has shown to be best.

Good on you!

About propane: TrentePieds - being just a little toy ship - has propane. All there is really room for. And it's okay as long as you treat it with respect. In a boat like yours, the bottle(s) should be in a chest on deck and that chest should be vented overboard. Within the chest, right next to the regulator on the bottle, should be a solenoid "shut off", and that solenoid valve should be controlled from a switch next to the stove.

Cool, good to hear! I'm starting to really like this new layout.

And yes, that solenoid switch in the galley is already installed, so for that part I'm there already. The propane bottle is stored outside on the roof, with the solenoid right next to it.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I've spent years on wood fishing boats. I live on a wood boat. Learn to cook on the diesel stove. Propane is dangerous in a hull. It's heaver than air, collects in the bilge and eventually goes boom. A byproduct of propane cooking is moisture. Your clothes, bedding will be damp all the time in the winter. The diesel will keep the boat much dryer. With a water coil will also make your hot water or transfer heat to other places with a pump and radiator.
What ever you do, don't drain the shower into the bilge and then pump. The soap will will rot the wood. I've found it's better to have a small stand alone shower than a shower with a toilet in the middle. Sewage is illegal in US waters. Don't get caught. I use an Incinolet. Others use composting heads or holding tanks.
Some pics of a wood fishing boat in Alaska with propane cooking:

YOUR NAME IS YOUR DESTINY! on that one!

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by jawshuwah

Ok here's my rough drawing of one possible new layout... thoughts?

Originally Posted by jawshuwah

Hmmm having trouble posting replies, must be reviewed by a moderator...

Here is my rough drawing of the boat's current layout

Here are my thoughts, leave the newer galley as is, remove the old galley and turn that area into your living room/pilot house, then in the vee birth leave the head where it is and install the shower on the starboard side.

This would be the least amount of work and would be the easiest to complete and it will leave you with the maximum amount of living space.

Consider that the Vee birth is only going to be for sleeping and bathing and having all of those things in one room means if you have guests on board and need to get cleaned up before going out you can have the privacy to do so.

Try to think what living on the boat with your plans will be like in situations when you are alone and have company.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

@ #17

Ah! Just saw your revised sketch. You are getting hot :-)

But don't trust these simple computer sketching programmes. They will bite you on the butt every time because they are not dimensioned, and the various bits and pieces of the sketch are not shown in their correct relative sizes and relationships

Looks like by "autonomus discovery" your are working towards the arrangements experience has shown to be best.

Good on you!

About propane: TrentePieds - being just a little toy ship - has propane. All there is really room for. And it's okay as long as you treat it with respect. In a boat like yours, the bottle(s) should be in a chest on deck and that chest should be vented overboard. Within the chest, right next to the regulator on the bottle, should be a solenoid "shut off", and that solenoid valve should be controlled from a switch next to the stove. Soon as you no longer need the stove lit, you turn off the solenoid by means of the switch and let the gas burn out of the line. Then you close the valve on the stove and go to the bottle and shut off the manual valve on top of it. Always, always keep your bilge sniffer active so if your system has sprung a leak while you were off the boat, the sniffer will tell you as you come aboard, before you turn on the solenoid and play with open flame below decks. And for good measure use your snozz to verify what the sniffer tells you.

In a wooden boat, sticking your snozz in the bilge a coupla times a day is always good policy even if you don't have propane :-)

TrentePieds



TrentePieds

This is good advice. We've had alcohol & much prefer propane. Regarding your bed design in the bow there's a lot of wasted space. If you rotate it clockwise it might work better or center it with access on both sides. It's a pain crawling out the front, especially with 2 people in the bed. I'd do mockups with cardboard or luan before building. I recommend a separate shower stall & a composting head. Both will make life simpler. I also recommend the WoodenBoat Forum. Lots of like minded people & a ton of info.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I've spent years on wood fishing boats. I live on a wood boat. Learn to cook on the diesel stove. Propane is dangerous in a hull. It's heaver than air, collects in the bilge and eventually goes boom. A byproduct of propane cooking is moisture. Your clothes, bedding will be damp all the time in the winter. The diesel will keep the boat much dryer. With a water coil will also make your hot water or transfer heat to other places with a pump and radiator.
What ever you do, don't drain the shower into the bilge and then pump. The soap will will rot the wood. I've found it's better to have a small stand alone shower than a shower with a toilet in the middle. Sewage is illegal in US waters. Don't get caught. I use an Incinolet. Others use composting heads or holding tanks.
Some pics of a wood fishing boat in Alaska with propane cooking:

Baloney ! A "properly" installed propane system is safe. Nothing we can do about idiots who jury rig these systems.