Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-08-2014, 21:53   #31
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,413
Re: Is the liveaboard life still free and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Well put. Someone who understands that business is about maximizing revenues. And quite often you can maximize revenues by picking a price point that puts you well below 100% occupancy.
Hundred percent occupancy means the rents are too low. Give someone a chance for a berth if they will pay more.
__________________

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2014, 22:06   #32
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

"maximizing revenues"
Wouldn't that mean going to "demand pricing" and auctions all the time for everyone? Negotiating every price, every time, with every potential customer?

Spirit Airlines and hotel discount codes for everyone everytime?

Welcome to the shouk. I have fine fine carpet for you today, special just for you!
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2014, 22:49   #33
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Another possible conclusion is that folks who own boats have already done the "anchor out it's fun" routine and now marina hop while still using their boats just as much, while at the same time new boaters haven't yet learned to or even desire to anchor out 'cuz they haven't figured out yet how to keep the lights on without being plugged in!

As far as the neighborhood, yup.
Well true about the marina hopping. Even sail boaters here do that. Not many here have solar or wind mounted either. Myself, I tend to still enjoy being on the hook far more, unless it's blowing up a stink. But I'm weird that way.

Though after 8 years I've gotten better of finding protected locations before a storm. Storms from the north at china camp or SE at Richardson bay are way too much fun.

My guess is overall fewer folks are taking the boat out or only taking it out on holidays. Some marina's here do looks like they have fewer boats.

Yes I'm like typhoid Mary to property values and neighborhoods.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 06:26   #34
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

It is neither.

The cost depends on where you are.

How easy it is depends on how much experience you have and how easy, or hard, you make things for yourself.

Do not expect to get great job offers if you will walk around in your clothes washed in the bucket.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 06:42   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,877
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"maximizing revenues"
Wouldn't that mean going to "demand pricing" and auctions all the time for everyone? Negotiating every price, every time, with every potential customer?

Spirit Airlines and hotel discount codes for everyone everytime?

Welcome to the shouk. I have fine fine carpet for you today, special just for you!
It works for electronic travel sites because prices already change frequently and they are dealing with millions of transactions each day. On a per transaction basis, it doesn't cost a lot to add the logic to the software and squeeze a bit more profit out.

For a small operation such as a marina, you simply adjust your prices each year.
- If you are empty, you offer discounts.
- If you are half full, you hold prices steady and let demand catch up.
- If you are at 80-90% full, you raise them with inflation.
- If you have a waiting list, you add a hefty increase.

Making a buisness profitable is not evil.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 06:53   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,877
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Very interesting thread, Dock Danger... Thanks for the inquiries. It seems that many folks are only interested in the live aboard lifestyle in Florida and forsake the many other spots like Mexico and the PNW. Having come from north of the real border, I've always had a soft spot for BC as long as you stay out of then Lower Mainland where Vancouver is located. There are heaps of little out of the way anchorages where there is a general store, a government dock and few neighbors to irritate you! If I were to choose, I would go north... Perhaps the Great Lakes might be a good spot for easterners... Never sailed up there but heard good things about that part of the country.
Good luck with your search... Phil
The Great Lakes is a great place to liveaboard...in the summer.

But even then, free anchor out locations in populated areas are much more limited. It can be done but you just don't see it as much. I suspect it's because the people who want to live on the cheap have to do something for the winter and there is no way to get a free pass in the winter, so they either give up or head south and don't return.

We actually have been back for 3yrs to stock up the cruising kitty and there is no way you could even pretend to anchor out. Even if you did the fuel for heating a poorly insulated boat would eat you alive. We moved into an apartment over the winter but that defeats the goal of being really cheap.

Then again while we pay a bit more for a better location and amenities, we have found marinas for under $1500 for the summer including utilities. For a 6 month season that's pretty hard to argue with.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 08:10   #37
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,951
Images: 6
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
- If you are at 80-90% full, you raise them with inflation.
Maybe. But the real point is that the objective is not to get 80-90% full, or even any specific percentage full. The objective is to maximize revenues. That might come at a price point where you are only 60% full. Or 50%, or 95%, or whatever. It doesn't matter. The smart businessman--the one who is going to be able to stay in business for the long haul--will be constantly working to find the right price point where he maximizes revenues across the enterprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Making a buisness profitable is not evil.
Kind of sad that you even have to say that, isn't it? Pathetic that there are so many people around who think "profit" is a dirty word and businesses are all evil.

(Of course, only when it is someone ELSE making the profit. No one--not one, single person in this entire world--thinks it is wrong when THEY are making the profit!)
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 08:57   #38
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Kind of sad that you even have to say that, isn't it? Pathetic that there are so many people around who think "profit" is a dirty word and businesses are all evil.
(Of course, only when it is someone ELSE making the profit. No one--not one, single person in this entire world--thinks it is wrong when THEY are making the profit!)
So I was talking to a cruiser heading South towards Mexico on his 2011 Catalina 42, nicely appointed with all the gizmos, a lovely yacht. He bought the boat new. Our converstation thread turned to another and he went into a tirade about the "damn 1%-ers that were F-ing the rest of us 99%-ers". He didn't see the irony that to many other 99%-ers he as one of the evil rich bastards that he was complaining about with his "yacht" and cruising lifestyle.

Income inequality isn't evil folks...its how Economies work, but it's also how politicians keep people riled up these days not at them for F-ing us...but at their fellow citizens.

The Cost of Living in damn near Paradise without the Tacos here in Morro Bay is $250/mo-ish for the Mooring rent and $79/mo for the "live abaord fee". Where you gonna live on less than that in California if not under a bridge? Actually Catalina Island is Cheap to anchor out in for FREE at Cat Harbor, but the cost of food and booze will kill you there!
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2014, 09:06   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,877
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Maybe. But the real point is that the objective is not to get 80-90% full, or even any specific percentage full. The objective is to maximize revenues. That might come at a price point where you are only 60% full. Or 50%, or 95%, or whatever. It doesn't matter. The smart businessman--the one who is going to be able to stay in business for the long haul--will be constantly working to find the right price point where he maximizes revenues across the enterprise.


Kind of sad that you even have to say that, isn't it? Pathetic that there are so many people around who think "profit" is a dirty word and businesses are all evil.

(Of course, only when it is someone ELSE making the profit. No one--not one, single person in this entire world--thinks it is wrong when THEY are making the profit!)
True, it is about maximizing profit. The percentages were just to provide an example to help people wrap their heads around how it would work. The owner has to look at the bottom line and keep making adjustments.

They also have to consider long term effects and ancilliary buisness operations not just slip fees and how full they are.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 10:39   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Boat: Still Searching
Posts: 162
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Actually, profit maximization for this type of business is quite simple if there is a bit of price history to use. This is because the product/services offered are not complex and result in a very simple profit function. In mathematical terms it is the first derivative of the profit function with respect to Q. While this can sound complex to the non-math guy, it is actually very simple.

If price history exists, hopefully there will be data from several different price points, ranging from underpriced to overpriced. Really about 5-7 data points should be fine. Throw these into a scatter plot in Excel with price on the x-axis and profit on the y-axis. Use the "curve fit" tool to overlay a nice smooth continuous function that nicely fits your data points, and tell it to show the equation for that line. Then go online and tell Google to solve for the first derivative of that equation. The solution is the price at which your profit will be the highest. That should be your advertised price. From there, discounts and premiums should be event driven and short lived.

I find it odd that most people have the opinion that a vacancy should be given away at a large discount. Constantly trying to fill vacancy last minute is a very difficult way to run a business. Essentially, these people are wanting a reward for making life harder for the owner. In reality, the owner should run the business such that prepaying and long term reservations are rewarded. Last minute check-ins should typically be paying the highest stated rate, which is likely higher than they could've gotten by making a reservation a few days earlier.
__________________
Certeza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 10:49   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,362
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Keep your boat neat and tidy. Have it moveable and useable at all times. Don't stay one place forever and I think you can get along fine... even in eastern Florida. Often the rhetoric is worse than the reality. Life will be much easier if you can find inexpensive moorage though... and I'm sure those places are still out there.. they may not be the prettiest, but often have good people and a lot of character.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 10:53   #42
sitting on the dock of the bay

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,513
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

agree on the mooring idea. they usually offer services along with a community that a live aboard will end up needing. you may even get WIFI reception in the process
__________________
sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most.
gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 11:15   #43
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,770
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

seguro, i had better interwebz on a mooring in usa than in a marina here, at present.
living aboard is what YOU make of it, nothing more nothing less.
it is also comparable with 1700s pioneeering, in many respects-- just a tad more allegedly civilized ha ha ha ...and not as many horses. still as much poop and hot air.
as long as you stay acceptable in appearance for the locals not to bitch, and as long as you relocate occasionally, you are under radar.
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 11:21   #44
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

"Making a buisness profitable is not evil. "
I'd rephrase that as "Making a business profitable is not necessarily evil."

Suppose there was a cluster of marinas, and they only rented slips by the day. And changed prices daily. Seasonal discount? OK, we'll negotiate a percent to be applied to the daily rate. Or perhaps, we'll hold an auction for slips, every day at 8AM. Or 4PM. Or there is a cluster of marinas, on the only good anchorage within a three hour sail. And they all reset their prices every day.

Like the four gas stations at an intersection, who are prohibited (in the US) from discussing pricing with each other, to prevent collusion. Now, THAT'S a famous situation in game strategy. (And a prime work by the mathematician who was the subject of the book & movie A Beautiful Mind, incidentally.)

Evil? Hmmm....When my cell company charges a 5-10,000% profit on text messaging "because everyone else can do it" I call that evil, yes. 5000% profit is a bit absurd, don't you think? Inspires the customers to say "What can I steal back?"

Make more money than you can get by sticking it in the bank, by all means. Get piggy about it...not so much. And the trend in American business for years has been to outright steal for their profits, going way beyond reasonable. Like the insurers who deny claims some random number, simply because they know a certain percent of the customers will not challenge the denial, right or wrong, and they'll have fewer claims to pay that way. That's been documented, too.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2014, 11:43   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Michigan
Boat: 1972 Catalina 27
Posts: 45
Re: Is the Liveaboard Life Still Free and Easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Then again while we pay a bit more for a better location and amenities, we have found marinas for under $1500 for the summer including utilities. For a 6 month season that's pretty hard to argue with.
Our marina is in the Toledo area. We pay (around) $700/year including electric AND winter storage. We have showers, laundry & a pool. No wifi though. We're a 'boat-a-minium' so we're mostly owners. Our marina is about half full and fairly quiet. It's a not for profit owners association, so the goal is to cover costs, which keeps slip costs down. Does make it tricky to make any major improvements though. Collecting on unpaid docks is an issue as well.


Sent from my SPH-L710 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
lippysyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Easy, free Fish & other food while living aboard liveaboardL Liveaboard's Forum 14 22-03-2014 17:10
Just Registered, Future Liveaboard Still Looking for a Boat Schtroumpfmarin Meets & Greets 6 28-10-2011 07:05
For Sale: Airplane Life Raft and Components Still in Case gelman Classifieds Archive 1 19-08-2011 18:02
Life on Easy Street Brent Swain Meets & Greets 5 26-01-2007 02:31
Australian Cruising news now easier.. and still free Bob Norson Pacific & South China Sea 0 18-04-2006 23:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.