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Old 02-11-2018, 04:29   #31
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

We use ours for our laptop running OpenCPN, phone and camera charging location and similar things. Very handy to have an area like this.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:32   #32
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm surprised at the many who have mentioned putting the radar at the nav station. Bad idea IMO, for it should be visible from the helm if it is to be of much use. I went to the expense of buying a new radar to replace the old CRT display that had to be below decks. The new one is waterproof enough to live under the dodger where it is easily seen and adjusted by the watchkeeper... far more useful, it is!

Similar feelings about the AIS.

Jim

It depends on what you do with the radar! And what kind of crew you are.



If you are doing radar navigation, or if you want to keep a separate radar/AIS watch from the nav table, then it's really useful to have a radar display there.


We have radar displays at both nav table and helm, and the nav table station is used 10x more often than the helm station. But I am typically fully crewed for long passages, and the watch is often divided -- visual watch in the cockpit, radar/AIS at the nav table.



Collision avoidance, if there is any complexity to it, is far easier to do at the nav station where you can do plotting and really think about the problems, and use the radio where necessary, rather than hanging out in the weather in the cockpit.





Of course if you are single or double handed, so everything is being done by one person in the cockpit while the other person sleeps, then you need the radar display there. I think most people will want the radar in both places.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:47   #33
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

As a sailor organization is the best , having a space dedicated for navigation that you can put all your electronics and charts plus the boat log book that you can write fast observations anytime and it won't be effected by crew book or whatever you can put on the saloon table , the fact that you can keep the map always open anytime and mark your course and more other benefits makes me feel that a chart table is necessary.
But at current time catamaran owners turn to like more floating houses or caravans that real seaworthy boats.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:06   #34
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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Originally Posted by ssmoot View Post
Thanks all.

For some context, I was thinking of boats like the Lagoon 40 and 42, or the Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40 or Astrea 42.

Those boats have pretty small salons and then they're compromised further by cramming in over 2sqm of nav station. I was just wondering if there was something I was missing.
Naaa, not used at all. Only for junk dropoff and charging. Paper charts if used is on main table as nav station too small. Same for second chartplotter - on main table.

It is old school left over.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:05   #35
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Some of us are old-fashioned, traditionalists, or broke... and those old radars last forever.
But the lower power consumption on the new ones has to be a plus in addition to being water tight.
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Old 02-11-2018, 18:54   #36
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

My trimaran had a table we often used to spread out a chart. We used these charts to plan a voyage and set a course. After we had done that and noted the position of the way points--we set them on the chart plotter, rolled up the charts and stowed them in waterproof PVC tubes. From then on the table was used for eating and using laptops.

So yes--a chart table is useful--as long as it serves more than one purpose.

Other wise, a sheet of sealed and varnished battened plywood with screw-in or fold-put legs that can be fitted up as needed will suffice. Also useful for playing cards and decanting home brewed beer, and if kept flexible in one direction makes an excellent fothering patch for covering a large hole in an emergency..
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:05   #37
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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If I had the space on my boat, I'd have my mini-lathe, MIG welder, table saw, a bigger wine cellar, more counter space around the stove, and a bigger refrigerator to fit more beer. As most boaters - we are limited in space though it's sorta fun storing stuff in really weirdly shaped spaces. It's even more fun when I can find something I stored months before, or a long gone girlfriend has moved.
My chart table is totally useless and is covered in crap I haven't yet figured out how to fit anywhere else.
Waste of space.
I had my mini lathe and mill aboard my stretched Roberts 36 and found that whilst it was nice to have if I wanted to do a quick knock up of an autopilot drive or nylon sheave there was a major down side - swarf in the feet and in the bunk. Consequently the lathe and mill now reside in a van.

I cruise in response to the climate and have a usual range of about 800 nm. During the cyclone season I tend to be moored or at anchor for about four months. I found that if I diligently applied myself I could usually get the chart table cleared before turning around and venturing south again. Initially the sea state was sometimes very helpful however as time went by I got more cunning and used to clamp a cleat along the inboard edge of the chart table. Unfortunately this then allowed me to leave more of the junk on the table long term and the result was that I would sometimes make two or maybe even three peregrinations before the table was completely cleared.

The digitization of navigation was also a great help as it takes far less space to rest a tablet or small computer and anyway since you don't need to rule lines you can just place it on top of the untidy mess on the chart table.

I would definitely have a chart table. There is no feeling quiet like the extreme self gratification one experiences when you uncover the finger nail clippers you thought lost or feared were going rusty in the bilge from eighteen months ago when you eventually work your way down to the lower layers of junk on the chart table.
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Old 05-11-2018, 15:26   #38
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

We have radar, gps, computer and radio at the helm and at the nav station. Well, at the helm we just clamp our ipad to the binacle or hold it in our hands while we let the autohelm do the steering.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:43   #39
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

From Captain Ron: "Who was INCONSIDERATE enough to put food on the kitchen table?!"


The nav station has progressed from a paper chart table to an office. If you have stuff stacked on it you have a discipline problem. Fix that. Yes, you need a ship's office. No food, not stuff, no extraneous devices plugged in to charge. There are other places for those things.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:36   #40
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

I’d have incentive enough to clear my chart table if my cabin top were much higher.
As it stands, my companionway hatch and a fairly tall dodger have to make do for impromptu table dancing
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:42   #41
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
So... if you didn't have a chart table where would you put 'all the crap (you) haven't yet figured out how to fit anywhere else'?
The lift up top is the primary villain of a traditional chart table. I mounted a LCD monitor for the display of a small format PC I mounted underneath the table - but the silly lift up makes the space above the table very difficult to utilize.
Slide out shelves underneath a fixed top would work far better IMO
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:17   #42
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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The lift up top is the primary villain of a traditional chart table.

I agree. I have my laptop tied down and a secondary monitor (HDMI to TV as third). I'd much prefer a drawer to the lifting lid.
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Old 09-11-2018, 13:01   #43
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

I have owned sailboats (monohulls) without a chart table/navigation station; Tanzer 22 sailed on San Pablo Bay/San Francisco Bay and a San Juan 28 sailed coastal to British Columbia and Alaska solo. Succinctly, not necessary on the Tanzer. I wish I had a chart table on the San Jan 28 as I ended up keeping my laptop on top of the engine compartment at the entry to the cabin and even constructed a plastic cover over the entrance cover so that I could see it in rainy weather. As others have mentioned, I also used the salon table for spreading out charts when necessary. So, if you are not going to do any challenging sailing, you most likely won't need it and I have seen a number of boats like that, mostly just for day/limited sailing.

My current boat, Tayana Vancouver 42, has a full navigation station with table, I would not buy another sailboat without a forward facing one. It is the center of my boat management system, not just navigation. While I have sailing instruments and GPS at the helm, there is a need to consolidate the boats systems somewhere and that should be the Navigation Station if for no other reason than weather/theft protection...on simple boats, not so much.

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Old 09-11-2018, 18:16   #44
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think this hits the nail on the head.


Is doing actual navigation and passage planning a big part of what you do on your boat, or not?


If it is, then you certainly need a place to do it.


If you use your boat as a floating condo which occasionally gets repositioned to another marina, or anchors out for a weekend, then not.
While I am all for tradition, and firmly believe in belt, suspenders, and anything else you might think you need, digital electronics and gps are rather proven technologies.
My small boat experience is a bit limited - but I worked as a young man in the offshore oilfields all around the world in the late 70's/early 80's. Our drillships navigated by Loran-C and we positioned our drill locations by gps - only it was called Navstar then. It took 10-30 hours of logging data to get a good fix. There were only 2 or 3 Block 1 satellites in the constellation.
I get people who want to be independent, self reliant, and free of many of the modern world's stupid distractions.
There are plenty of cruisers in the middle, who have a bit of paper chart backup, a sextant and tables stashed somewhere - but we navigate digitally.
And it ain't from marina to marina in a rocking condo. Try single handing a deep keel Hans several thousand kilometers. I'm working up my horizons to more further flung adventures - as long as my health holds up. I'll take every good modern convenience and technology available to git my dreams done while I'm still kicking.
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Old 09-11-2018, 18:36   #45
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Re: Is a chart-table necessary?

Chart table is a must on a bluewater sailboat imo, it should also be able to hold a full chart, you need a proper nav station.

It can also serve as a work bench

And as a library and an office, great to sit there with a laptop and do some work, you also get some "privacy"

Furthermore, it's not in the way of the natural flow of the boat either, as crew move around.

This may not hold true for catamarans and trimarans, since those have so much more space, I guess you could set up a nav station pretty much anywhere.
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