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Old 22-07-2016, 01:03   #1
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Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

This boat I am getting (60ft ex trawler) is coming out of the water Monday for underwater inspection before parting with the bucks and starting work was always going to be a liveaboard, a full time cruiser, living mostly on the hook.

A month ago I called a few of the big name insurance mobs in Australia, told them my intentions and all was good, subject to survey, not a problem they say.

Today when I call to clarify and confirm their attitude has changed.
Today they are not interested in insuring it unless I have a 12 mth lease on a Marina berth where it will be parked most of the time. No pile moorings or mooring buoys allowed.
Their solution is to shell out $1300/mth for something I will use for several days a year at most.

WTF! Its a boat, it is made to be out there being used not attached to a marina most of its life.

To make matters even more ridiculous I cant get into a marina even if I wanted to because......you guessed it, I dont have insurance.
Cant come out of the water without insurance(Monday is on PO's insurance) technically cant use a fuel dock without insurance (24hour fuel docks are a work around) and here in Australia we now have to have wreck removal and cleanup insurance and I cant get that by itself as its part of full comprehensive.
No third party includes it.

So at this stage on a Friday afternoon and a travel lift booked for Monday at my expense I want out of the deal.

Can anyone give me any idea on a company who will insure it

Surely there must be someone in QLD that cruises/lives aboard full time without paying for a permanent berth they rarely use?
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Old 22-07-2016, 01:20   #2
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Re: Cruising boats in QLD insurance issues - ideas please

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Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
This boat I am getting (60ft ex trawler) is coming out of the water Monday for underwater inspection before parting with the bucks and starting work was always going to be a liveaboard, a full time cruiser, living mostly on the hook.

A month ago I called a few of the big name insurance mobs in Australia, told them my intentions and all was good, subject to survey, not a problem they say.
When you called the insurance companies one month ago, did you mention that length of the boat, i.e. 60 ft = 18.28 metres?


Not a few insurance companies include a condition about the boat being in a professionally managed marina if a licensed skipper is absent for more than x days.


Anything over 15.00 metres in Qld is more difficult and expensive to insure. See: Ship insurance (Maritime Safety Queensland)
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Old 22-07-2016, 01:34   #3
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Try phoning an obscure insurance broker in Hobart called Insurance Masters. They got us a really really good deal for our insurance, with an agreed value (very unusual in Australian boat insurance). Given you are in a hole, they are worth a try...

Insurance Masters Pty Ltd

334 Elizabeth Street, NORTH HOBART TAS 7000
PO Box 286, NORTH HOBART TAS 7002
P: 03 6234 8484
M: 0488 991 093
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Old 22-07-2016, 01:45   #4
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Re: Cruising boats in QLD insurance issues - ideas please

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When you called the insurance companies one month ago, did you mention that length of the boat, i.e. 60 ft = 18.28 metres?
Yes and length is not the issue

Quote:
Not a few insurance companies include a condition about the boat being in a professionally managed marina if a licensed skipper is absent for more than x days.
I dont plan on being absent at all and if I am, I would put in a marina, I told them that when questioned

Quote:
Anything over 15.00 metres in Qld is more difficult and expensive to insure. See: Ship insurance (Maritime Safety Queensland)
Yes I know, the cost is negligible in the scheme of things, still looking at around 1.5% of boat value ($1500/ $100,000) for full comp which includes that extra insurance.

The issue to them is I dont have a permanent marina berth to park it on if the need arises.
Telling them a marina berth in Brisbane is of little use to me if the need arises 100, 1000nm away was of little consequence.
Telling them there are marinas up and down the QLD coast that would be a hell of a lot closer meant little to them as well.

There is no logic to their decisions.
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Old 22-07-2016, 01:46   #5
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
Try phoning an obscure insurance broker in Hobart called Insurance Masters.
Thanks for that, call them I shall

Add: Club Marine will accept it if it is on an a swing mooring - doesnt matter to them that the one time I almost lost my last boat was when it was on a mooring and it broke. I never had an issue under anchor.

I thought I would look at getting one sank at my cost seeing as there is nowhere that has moorings to suit.

Maritime safety inform me that even if I could get one, it would be in an exposed spot and the boat must be on it for at least 6 mths of the year or you lose rights to that spot.

That counts cruising out then.
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Old 22-07-2016, 01:58   #6
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Is the issue a marina berth or would a swing mooring be acceptable to them? I can imagine they would not like the risk for a permanently anchored boat.

Related to this I just had a crazy conversation with my insurer. My location is NSW on a commercial swing mooring. When I told them I was going on a trip for a few months, they wanted me to call them for every new location. I told them that was ridiculous, so they renegged and said I don't need to.

So, maybe a solution that would work for you is to get it insured for a swing mooring. Once established, take it on a trip.

Edit: Ah I see you added the bit about a swing mooring while I was typing a response. My suggestion was to pay a marina for the mooring rental, rather than put your own down. When the time is right, go on a 6 month trip.
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Old 22-07-2016, 04:51   #7
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Did you try Oceanic Marine Risks in Brisbane?
(Tel. +61 7 3370 2555)

I've had great service from them.
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Old 22-07-2016, 10:34   #8
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

For insuring the uninsurable, we call Lloyd's
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Old 22-07-2016, 10:43   #9
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Pantaenius or Oceanic

Sent from my C6903 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 22-07-2016, 11:12   #10
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Sounds to me like they just want you to have a home port. So work a deal with a smaller marina where they have the right to rent out "your" slip unless you give them advance notice that you will be using it. Kind of like buying an option. That way the company has your "home port" address and you can moor where you like. It will cost you nothing to try. Good luck.
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Old 22-07-2016, 11:53   #11
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Try topsail( Australia) They have started in Oz and are pretty competitive and much more flexible than the local boys.
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Old 22-07-2016, 12:04   #12
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

Typically a marina doesn't require insurance to enter into a contract. However, they do require insurance to tie the boat to a slip, haul and/or store on the hard. You should be able to sign a contract with a marina and use the lease to obtain insurance as long as proof of insurance is provided prior to arrival.

Otherwise everyone would be in a weird paradox where they couldn't get insurance with a lease agreement and couldn't get a lease agreement without insurance. This is obviously not the case, so common sense prevails 'somewhere' here.

The stipulation is to have a leased slip, but nothing about the length of time it's tied up. Rent a slip, then sublet. I would make an agreement to sublet a slip[(on paper) from a friend with the intention of letting my friend continue to use the slip when I'm not using it. Then.....never actually use the slip.

The marina may have a 'no-subletting' clause, but as long as you don't actually tie the boat up to the slip they're neither going to know or care.
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Old 22-07-2016, 12:33   #13
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

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The stipulation is to have a leased slip, but nothing about the length of time it's tied up. Rent a slip, then sublet. I would make an agreement to sublet a slip[(on paper) from a friend with the intention of letting my friend continue to use the slip when I'm not using it. Then.....never actually use the slip.
The marina may have a 'no-subletting' clause, but as long as you don't actually tie the boat up to the slip they're neither going to know or care.
Bad advice, bad idea! Insurance proposals must be answered honestly, it’s the basis of insurance. There's definitely a need to park the boat in the slip in question. Suggesting the OP answers an insurance proposal with untruths is a bad idea.

And in the event of a claim, it wouldn't take much for an insurance investigator to figure the deception out. An interview with marina staff, followed by a few quick watches of the security camera footage, and oh gosh the insured boat hasn't been the one in the berth. Claim rejected!

Even the marina probably wouldn't be too impressed. In the marinas where I've leased berths, the contract has always specified the boat's details. And in many marinas the berth lengths match the boat’s length. And the OP has a 60 foot ex trawler. That’s going to weigh 40+ tonnes. Not the sort of boat marina staff wouldn’t notice.
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Old 22-07-2016, 12:50   #14
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Re: Cruising boats in QLD insurance issues - ideas please

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
Anything over 15.00 metres in Qld is more difficult and expensive to insure. See: Ship insurance (Maritime Safety Queensland)
Interesting to note in there this
Quote:
For those ships which cannot reasonably obtain insurance, the ship owner may be able to seek an exemption to the insurance requirement. In such cases the ship owner must apply to Maritime Safety Queensland. For further information on how to apply for an exemption, see the reference document (PDF, 79 KB) and Ship Insurance Exemption Application form.
I wonder if enough exemption forms came in if the gubmt. would do something?
Nah, of course not
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Old 22-07-2016, 13:09   #15
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Re: Insurance panic in QLD - what do liveaboards do?

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Try topsail( Australia) They have started in Oz and are pretty competitive and much more flexible than the local boys.
Just did the online quote
Thanks
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