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Old 02-09-2011, 06:17   #31
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

The bubble wrap some folks refer to including me is not a cheap option and it is not the stuff used in packaging. It is sold in the UK for insulating homes, especially loft spaces. It is metallic foil similar to that used in Thermorests but with a bigger cellular structure. It is damp proof and does not absorb water. For insulating the space between headlining and cabin tops it is ideal as it can be cut to fit, is easily placed and can be equally easily removed should it be necessary. It insulates our cabin top pretty damn well in a North European winter.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:46   #32
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT View Post
The bubble wrap some folks refer to including me is not a cheap option and it is not the stuff used in packaging. It is sold in the UK for insulating homes, especially loft spaces. It is metallic foil similar to that used in Thermorests but with a bigger cellular structure. It is damp proof and does not absorb water. For insulating the space between headlining and cabin tops it is ideal as it can be cut to fit, is easily placed and can be equally easily removed should it be necessary. It insulates our cabin top pretty damn well in a North European winter.
Ah.
Bubble Insulation
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:47   #33
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

http://www.aerogel.com/markets/Case_Study_Boat_web.pdf
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:29   #34
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT View Post
The bubble wrap some folks refer to including me is not a cheap option and it is not the stuff used in packaging. It is sold in the UK for insulating homes, especially loft spaces. It is metallic foil similar to that used in Thermorests but with a bigger cellular structure. It is damp proof and does not absorb water. For insulating the space between headlining and cabin tops it is ideal as it can be cut to fit, is easily placed and can be equally easily removed should it be necessary. It insulates our cabin top pretty damn well in a North European winter.
Isn't that essentially what Reflectix is? If not can you send me a link of the stuff that you used? I think that frugal mariner link is essentially a pretty good way of doing it.

Gord. you are saying that those Reflectix can only be used in applications where there is no airflow on either side? Isn't that exactly what most boat applications are?
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:12   #35
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Quote:
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....or insulating the space between headlining and cabin tops it is ideal as it can be cut to fit, is easily placed and can be equally easily removed should it be necessary. It insulates our cabin top pretty damn well in a North European winter.
So does this type of application allow moisture to build on the hull behind the insulation? It would seem to me removing anything would be helpful for tracing down a leak, a bad wire etc. otherwise who wants to futz with anything.
A buddy of mine removed his headliner after much coughing to find the dreaded black mold. Once I put the insulation in place, I don't ever want to think about it unless I'm admiring the good job its doing. Or is that hopeful wishing.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:21   #36
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

I have no idea about using it on the hull - ours is foamed and then lined conventionally. On the deck heads - which are wooden - where there is air movement we have no problem with condensation. I'd not recommend it on a hull of any material. The black mold issue is one that is always difficult to address. We have coated all surfaces which are out of sight with an anti-fungal treatment but how long it will last is anyone's guess.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:24   #37
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

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... Gord. you are saying that those Reflectix can only be used in applications where there is no airflow on either side? Isn't that exactly what most boat applications are?
No - exactly the opposite is true.
Radiant barriers, REQUIRE an air separation between the reflecting surface and the exterior weather structure.
If a radiant barrier does not have an air space, heat will conduct from the surface touching the radiant barrier, through the barrier, and then transfer to the next surface touching the radiant barrier on the opposite side; therefore giving you no protection against the heat you intend to block.
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Old 02-09-2011, 13:28   #38
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I used stuff from home depot about $25/roll for 30-30 feet by 2'. I think it is R19, 1/4" thick. I used contact cement (get the gel) you can still rip it's off but I allowed me to contact cement cut pile fabric over it. The look was good.
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Old 02-09-2011, 14:22   #39
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

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I used stuff from home depot ... I think it is R19, 1/4" thick...
I think not (R76/Inch).
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Old 02-09-2011, 17:12   #40
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Yea not R19...sorry
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:27   #41
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

This is a bit of a disjointed / rambling post (even more than usual ), started last night - can't really work out what I was trying to say / wish I hadn't bothered

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
What is this bubble wrap insulation everyone talks about? can someone send me a link of what you mean? I don't think I can afford Armaflex. How much is a roll? When I google it all I got was sleaving for pipes.
B&Q Aluminium Thermal Foil M/P Insulation Silver Length 7.5m x Width 600mm, 0000003718001

12 for 7 1/2 Meters (yards). It's like plastic bubble wrap, except made of Bacofoil .....and the air bubbles don't make the same satisfying pop as in plastic



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We did our last boat with the foil bubble wrap foil insolation. It was great, both in the heat (Charleston SC) and in the cold, down to18f. We also found the boat much quieter. on the present boat we use it to cover all the ports and hatches. I hoped that the foil would improve the boat radar reflection also...
I am glad to read that Being in Northern Europe I am also after partly to keep cool, and partly to keep warm. My insulation efforts ground to a halt over the summer, but the good news with that is I could try and get an idea of how different approaches worked over time by a few test pieces....annoyingly though not the greatest of summers weather wise, last year it did get well hot onboard, ths year not - not sure how much that is down to me though.....

My approach has been that anything I do has to:-

A) be easily removable (for access to the deck / cabin roof (repairs or improvements) - or simply if I need to try a better idea).

B) is manmade and can't get damp / start rotting.

C) is fairly cheap (no point spending big money when I don't know what works for me) and DIY able..........by me

Essentially "all" I have at the moment is one layer of foil bubble insulation ontop (under?!) white painted deck underside (and the headlinings not in place) all taped into place with foil tape. Whilst I knew that a few mil of foil would not be the sole answer I was curious to see what effect it had alone.

The answer is I think, not much (1 layer) - and to touch is warm (as the underdeck is / was) but the heat seems more uniformarly spread and less fierce (not to say it was ever too hot to touch, like it can be on deck) - I would be curious as to how much the silver reflecting bounces heat back out - I get the feeling that it is some, but can't prove that

In most places I have another 1/2" (1 1/2cm) to play with (excepting that I do have places (deck beams etc) where I only have a minimal gap to play with - so there will always be a heat jump? / sink? as a weakness in whatever I do, but just like an old cheap leaky wooden boat - just have to settle on plugging the major leaks and living with a few smaller ones, even if the price of that is buying a bucket (and in the insulation case, that will be more ventilation and heating than 100% perfection would require).

I have also painted the underside of each roof panel (foam covered ply) white. whether that reflects anything is another thing

In practice I suspect that the biggest difference I have (presently) made to the internal heat / stuffiness onboard is a) no hatch / door in place and b) internal window shades made out of vinyl foam and a tight fit to the window frames. I have 2 versions, vinyl on both sides and another with foil bubble wrap facing outward - to be honest I can't really tell the difference on touch alone, they probably both work from the sunlight simply not heating up the air inside.

My present thinking is some thick insulation I have seen - same foil bubble wrap but sandwiched around manmade fibre, comes on a roll but more panel like......I might put a thin barrier between the 2 layers (I might have some spare vinyl floating around)......but in any event will be using more foil bubble wrap as a "filler" for any nooks and crannies.

Plan is to add a lot more ventilation - but that will be next year, once the hatches go back (not a high crime area around here ).

Additional plan is a deck awning - or partial covers on the deck / over windows, possibly using the foil bubble wrap (same way it is used for car windscreen shades).

I am a kinda working on a "every little helps" basis, coupled with a "making things up as I go along" approach (even if I prefer the term "a considered approach" ). FWIW I discounted spray / permanent foam for access reasons and possible future removal (could be me and I have seen wet / damp / moldy foam before and it's a PITA to remove the last 10%) and also as I don't know what works....but for the right boat (especially a new build or steel) it would be my first choice in most places.

and just to say when I say underdeck am also talking about hullsides (to waterline) and decks as well as simply saloon "roof" (Lol!).
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Old 03-09-2011, 13:28   #42
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Re: Insulating Your Interior - how to attach?

For those of you that use Reflectix, how are you attaching? Contact cement? If so, which? Is it a type that lets you remove, or permanent? If removable is it a cement that does not leave a residue to scrape off? Or what method are you using?

I could just use a narrow roll and tape the edges, but I would expect condensation to form in the inevitable sag?

enlightenment appreciated
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Old 03-09-2011, 14:01   #43
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Re: Insulating Your Interior

If you go for one place at a time, it is not a lot of mess and can be done while living onboard. The magic is to insulate very VERY tightly - not leaving any pockets.

Our boat has some, and I am going to add some in the bunks department - not for heat / cold but rather to sleep better on the passage (noise!).

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Old 04-09-2011, 00:18   #44
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Re: Insulating Your Interior - how to attach?

Quote:
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For those of you that use Reflectix, how are you attaching? Contact cement? If so, which? Is it a type that lets you remove, or permanent? If removable is it a cement that does not leave a residue to scrape off? Or what method are you using?

I could just use a narrow roll and tape the edges, but I would expect condensation to form in the inevitable sag?

enlightenment appreciated
Hi Trekka,

I was very aware of the desire to form a constant and even attachment to the under-deck. I used a combination of Contact Adhesive (Evo-Stick like substance available commercially over here in the UK) and the "Spray-on" contact adhesive, "Photo Mount" type available in many craft shops.
The contact adhesive was applied to the back of the Reflectix, then while the contact was going tacky I sprayed an even coat on to the under deck.
This method forms a strong but breakable bond. THis was important for us should we ever want to service/remove/install behind the insulation.
I have applied a double layer of this "Bubble Wrap" like stuff to the whole of the under-deck with no problems and a marked improvement in insulation qualities.
We have snow and ice on our deck for many days after it has melted on other vessels, even longer than on some house roofs.
I have started the process of covering the Bubble Wrap like Reflectix with a layer of 4mm vinyl coated ply and I fully expect this to further add to the insulating quality of Talisman.
I will report back during the up-coming winter when I know more.

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Old 04-09-2011, 00:21   #45
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Re: Insulating Your Interior - how to attach?

Trekka,

Sorry, I meant to add . . .
The mix of contact adhesive on the Reflectix and spray-on to the under-deck does make the whole panel on Reflectix removable with little or no residue to scrape off the under-deck. However I have scrapped the removed panel of insulation and replaced with a new piece, small price to pay IMHO.

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