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Old 09-01-2011, 20:45   #16
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Originally Posted by Bergovoy View Post
hello, and thanks for the info... the survey was performed at the request of an earlier potential buyer... the survey was completed in August of 2010, but a local reputable boat yard and surveyor... I have spoken with him personally and I have no doubt as to how professional he is and will be... the report is complete with legal stuff and appears to be as thorough as I am used to with geology surveys and structural surveys...

I have heard several people tell me I should repeat the survey to avoid any conflicts , but as this was done by the prior potential buyer, I am not sure why I should repeat this effort, other then to get a more recent survey report...

The interior, according to the surveyor is above average condition and was completed by and maintained by someone with skillz and care, (according to the surveyor)

the other issues seem to be consistent with what i woudl think is normal wear and tear and appropriate with the age of the boat, 1972, and according tot he seller in prior communications, everything was completed/corrected.

they have been using the boat a couple times a month at least, and are planning an upcoming race or whatever in that area in a couple weeks.

I guess, I am not too concerned about the stop cocks/valves as they can be replaced fairly easily, but did kinda hope to get away from bottom painting for a year or so, but again, this too will be considered during the final negotiation...

and yes, i did make an offer / intent to purchase, based upon receipt of the boat survey... The owner seems to have been trying to sell for at least 7 months, but doesnt seem to be in too much of a hurry to sell her... the boat seems to be priced failry, or at least close to fair from what i can tell


Cal2-29 for $7500

Things would be much easier if i leved there and could see it and or talk with the surveyor in person and mechanics to get prices on fixing/repairing things... along with if i knew wtf i was talking about...
how about seeing if you can get a deal from the same company for a "walk though" to see if the thinks he saw before were addressed. No hull sounding, etc which is a major portion of the time and price.
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Old 09-01-2011, 21:15   #17
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how about seeing if you can get a deal from the same company for a "walk though" to see if the thinks he saw before were addressed. No hull sounding, etc which is a major portion of the time and price.
yea, i thought of that too... I kinda figured i could get a marine mechanic to kinda give me an estimate on those things, and then he could verifiy if it needed it or not...

At the least he could operate the stop cocks for me at least the first time.. i wont have any long 'breaker' bar or anything bigger then a medium crescent wrench.

I will be figuring out what tools i need to acquire as i go...
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:04   #18
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ok, got the reply from the boat owner, who is now recanting her earlier statement of everything on the report being corrected/addressed...

she is now stating the only things ADDRESSED where the strainer inlet and the loose bolts.

She indicated that if the other items on teh list were corrected the boat would be worth the $12k that the surveyor indicated...

I kinda disagreed, but not in writing to her.. it is clear that she glossed over the report and only addressed the items she wanted/needed to keep the float operational and or to keep it from breaking or costing more...


I am kinda surprised... She indicated that she was experienced and had captains license and all that, but yet she couldnt / didnt read the report? OR worst, she felt that I couldnt read the report...

I doubt adding a second hose clamp to all the fittings will increase the boat any? I doubt adding a wrench for the gland box or seal box will add anything to the value...I doubt adding new flares will add value to the boat..

and again, I am sure a seller probably/possibly wouldnt add those items if they were selling, but I was extremely clear and persistant about the survey report and her indicating that everything on that report was addressed... and that i was a newbie and I wanted and needed and I would appreciate as much disclosure as possible...

Now, if she didnt know about the second clamp thing, or that the valves were sticky that would be one thing, but for her to know and have the report and to refute/deny that stuff and their impact to me or the new buyer is kinda 'sly' in my opinion.

I am totally rethinking this boat... not that it maybe difficult to 'address'/correct the remaining items, but more of one that this seller maybe 'NOT DISCLOSING' things she knows...

I had hoped she would be more forth-right and helpful with me as I am a newbie, but actually it is opposite...

god, I will be scouring and emailing and calling all over again, and probably wont do squat till i get there... arrrgghh

so much for plans
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:06   #19
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If it were me, I'd move on...
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:19   #20
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Berg,

Where is the boat in relation to Tampa? I guess I missed a few posts if you stated it previously, if it is not too far away I would be willing to run over and take a look see and snap some pictures if you would like, certainly not a survey, but at least you could talk to a dis-interested 3rd party that has seen the boat at that time.

I routinely travel between just north of Naples to just south of Crystal River on the west coast.

I hate seeing you make a hasty decision with no local eyes/hands on this end.

If it is on the other coast perhaps someone else on the thread could take a look.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:31   #21
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I agree with Mimsy . . . move on. There are sooooo many boats on the market, and most of them will sell for far, far less than the owners are asking. Discussing how much you're willing to pay for a vessel you haven't even seen is a real leap of faith, in my opinion, and relying on a five month-old survey and the owner's assurances just compounds the problem.

Looking at a boat purchase as similar to a house purchase because you intend to live in it is a mistake. The more appropriate analogy is buying a used car from someone you don't know and will never see again, and if there's a broker involved, give him the same regard you would a used car salesman.

If you really want to buy a boat in Florida, move there and rent a cheap apartment. Then begin your search - you will have an almost unlimited number of suitable vessels to select from. Go to and check out the ones that catch your fancy. Talk to employees in marinas - they'll know about boats that may be available but won't appear in an internet search.

Once you've found a viable candidate for satisfying your needs / wants, begin the negotiation with the owner, if possible. If you can eliminate the broker, you'll save money. The seller pays the broker his 10%, but guess who pays the seller . . .

After arriving at an agreeable price, schedule a survey. If the cost of the vessel is below, say, $10,000 you might skip the survey if you trust your own instincts or you have a competent friend whose opinion you trust and he / she says the vessel has no hidden defects nor necessary repairs that must be addressed immediately. If that happens and you think you still want the boat, don't hesitate to demand that the seller deduct the expense you will be facing from the agreed-upon price.

If you do purchase a new survey, use every item the surveyor finds to grind a better price from the seller. Until the sale closes, the option to negotiate is never off the table. A survey may seem like a costly expense, but I've yet to see a survey that didn't pay for itself.

And never, ever, let yourself be afraid to walk away from a deal.

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Old 11-01-2011, 10:36   #22
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If it were me, I'd move on...
+1.

I wouldn't want to own a boat owned previously by someone who would neglect known maintenance problems that were so easy to fix.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:52   #23
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Berg..... Columbia 36, $9500.... I'll PM info...
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:12   #24
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yea, i understand the difference between the hose and used car analogy... i kinda wanted to get the reassurance of a disclosure to help me, but I can tell that this owner was either conveniently naive to the survey or intentionally tyring to pull one over on me.

I was apprehensive in negotiating before cause i felt the owner was fair and teh asking price is fair, but now, i cant tell that isnt the case..

I have retracted my original letter of intent to purchase / offer and will definately wait till i get there to look at it and bring in the necessary people...

If i get the CAL29, then i will definately negotiate more... I actually offered the asking price on the boat originally, but now, i will have no problem in looking for the discount of a grand or two...

I was thinking about flying out to florida but am having some issues with my drivers license... not sure if you all read or heard about how California cant figure out how to 're-issue' drivers licenses.... they are two months behind... my license is currently expired, and although I read that airlines will let me fly, I am sure a rental company will not rent me a car until i have a current license.

and yes, i ordered my license more then a month before my license was supposed to expire..

so, that has kinda delayed me in making airline reservations as i dont want to be stuck...

that, and a new medical issue is making me kinda wait a bit more before i make this move...

anyways, I will look at other boats and stuff, but for now, i am planning on moving first, buying second... my only concern is that I feel that as the weather gets warmer, then more people will want a boat and as such the prices maybe less negotiable????

just a gut feeling, but not for sure????
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:36   #25
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I wouldn't worry about seasonal price fluctuations. The right boat is out there, just a matter of taking your time to find it. That Columbia Boatman posted looks interesting...
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:51   #26
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LOL... she does at that Mimsey.... why do these sweet deals always come along when I can't afford em... else I'd be over there prepping for a crossing... or down to the Islands... naah... definitely down to the Islands...
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:55   #27
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Interesting that there are four 36-foot Coumbias on Yachtworld. One for $9,500 and three for $32,000. Can you say "outlier"?


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Old 11-01-2011, 12:01   #28
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Interesting that there are four 36-foot Coumbias on Yachtworld. One for $9,500 and three for $32,000. Can you say "outlier"?


Connemara
Nope... but I do know where its for sale and I know where to haul and have access to everything I need to get her fixed... diy of course.. and a little help from my friends...
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:24   #29
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<<have access to everything I need to get her fixed.>>

Yep. (How did I get THIS font?)

I think the OP has been getting all sorts of advice, But to my mind, the key thing is this .. an old boat is going to take some sweat equity UNLESS it has been maintained to a very high standard in which case it ain't gonna be cheap.

A quick glance at the cheap Columbia suggests to me that some work is going to be needed. Probably true for the others as well, but they appear (cosmetically anyway) better, so the workload may be lighter. You hint, Boatman, that you know what is needed.

The OP is concerned about the survey on the Cal 29. ANY survey is going to come back with a list of things the boat "needs." I put that in quotation marks because it's a matter of opinion.

Connemara's initial survey said I had to replace all the engine and fuel hoses because they are now out of code. But they remain in excellent shape and on my to-do list. One day, maybe, if I have nothing better to do ... a list that includes having a beer and going sailing.


OTOH, the survey said nothing about the sails or running rigging, which were very old and tired. I am just completing the process of replacing those elements, which to me were more important, especially since they have an impact both on safety and performance.

A survey should identify things that have to be dealt with, should be dealt with, or could be dealt with if you have the money and/or time. Only elements in the first category should be possible deal-breakers (or maybe deal-makers, if you can get a discount). Those in the other categories...meh! Don't sweat the small stuff.

As long as it floats and sails safely, all the rest is small stuff.

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(How do I get rid of this font?)
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:38   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post
<<have access to everything I need to get her fixed.>>

Yep. (How did I get THIS font?)

I think the OP has been getting all sorts of advice, But to my mind, the key thing is this .. an old boat is going to take some sweat equity UNLESS it has been maintained to a very high standard in which case it ain't gonna be cheap.

A quick glance at the cheap Columbia suggests to me that some work is going to be needed. Probably true for the others as well, but they appear (cosmetically anyway) better, so the workload may be lighter. You hint, Boatman, that you know what is needed.

The OP is concerned about the survey on the Cal 29. ANY survey is going to come back with a list of things the boat "needs." I put that in quotation marks because it's a matter of opinion.

Connemara's initial survey said I had to replace all the engine and fuel hoses because they are now out of code. But they remain in excellent shape and on my to-do list. One day, maybe, if I have nothing better to do ... a list that includes having a beer and going sailing.


OTOH, the survey said nothing about the sails or running rigging, which were very old and tired. I am just completing the process of replacing those elements, which to me were more important, especially since they have an impact both on safety and performance.

A survey should identify things that have to be dealt with, should be dealt with, or could be dealt with if you have the money and/or time. Only elements in the first category should be possible deal-breakers (or maybe deal-makers, if you can get a discount). Those in the other categories...meh! Don't sweat the small stuff.

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LOL... don't copy and paste a snippet.... if you do click the text box and choose Verdana to go back....
And I was looking at the boat from my perpective.. which is I admit a coupla years more advanced than 'Bergs'.... but e-mails are free and wonderdeals can and do happen... even if its like the Cal the addable value margin makes her a good earn as you learn boat if you take your time and do it right.... its more liveable sized... in a strong boating community and lots of cheap slips to let...
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