Human Nature

[gbmacca]

You know, the thing that hurts us most, is when you judge a person to be a good friend, workpal, or confidant' - and they screw you!!

I have done this several times in my life - and possibly - conceitedly, feel I am a good judge of character - but - as time goes on, continue to let myself down.

My beautiful 55' Constellation sunk halfway, as we were moored to the fuel jetty, but both motors went under, which when refoated, I immediately removed the injectors of my Detroit 8v71's and had the motors turning over.

Don't do anything- said the insurance assessor, as the more you do - the less you'll get. 9 months later, begrudgingly, they gave me $20k as a token of good will and told me to bugger off. The motors were seized ---

With dwindly finances, I then had to look at my options and, with a house to rebuild after loosing all in a bushfire, thought I would sit back, take my time, reflect on the past - plan for the future - you know all that sort of stuff - and look at all my options. Whilst looking on a website for replacement motors, saw an advert from a guy saying he was fully conversant with Detroits, which here in Perth - is a dying art.

Told him if he could start my John Dere 310B down at the block, which two other mechanics had been unable to do, we would talk about the Detroits.

Well I was amazed at the work attitude of this guy, who turned up at 6.30 am, one day and at 7.30 the next night, in a drizzling rain - told him to stop!

He stayed the night, told me his life story and on the third day, we got the back hoe going. Beauty!! I said ok you can have a go at the Detroits so we sat down and planned the avenue of attack.

To cut a long story of abuse, assault etc , he now has my motors, after I have paid out $15.000 and refuses to contact me, or return calls. With no money coming in and all going out, I say to my kids 'you better hope I die young ---' I have very limited funds, with which to pursue this.

We have also found, this guy, who I welcomed into my home with his 'troubled' son, has a previous 'rap sheet' and is a con man. The police say it is a 'civil matter' which I thought that theft was a police matter - and will not assist.

Is there anyone out there, who having a similar, daunting and demoralising experience, can give me some advise.

Now please, all the 'Masters' of Hindsight' - wait until tomorrow, so you can say you were right -- yesterday! Ok!!

MAny thanks and to those of you who can - sail safely!

Cheers

Gbmacca

[rbk]

I think your legal system is more or less the same as ours in Canada so with that assumption I would first get a price on paper from a reputable business and take that to the police. It’s one thing to show up and say this guy took my broken boat engines but when they’re 20 grand a piece busted that’s still grand theft. If they’re still unwilling to deal with you then get on the writ for under the small claims amount at your local courthouse and pay the money to have the sheriff/court serve him. That in itself goes a long way. It may backfire depending on what your small claims limit is but if you surpass this amount you are generally required to hire legal counsel $$. If you can scare him enough you may find the engines show up in your driveway one morning, you may end up with a SC settlement which in Canada’s case would be max 25k which you may still never see unless you have his wages garnished and could take years. This route in Canada would run you around $50 and a couple of days of your time sitting in court. You may find that during the proceedings you may have a judge recommend criminal proceedings against the ‘con man’ based on allegations, then it becomes a matter of the crown.

[gamayun]

I have been amazed at some of the people who my friends and colleagues have befriended because, they say, they're "good people" though I found them immediately to be crooks and liars. I'm dealing with one such person right now who seems to have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. That's not to say I'm judging your skills in reading people but more of a cautionary tale that we really need to remove emotion from business dealings. I hope you recover from this. Make a filing in small claims court as long as you have your paperwork in order. Lots of times, these people know that process better, too. Good luck.

[gbmacca]

Have just replied to the guy in Canada, and thanked him for his advice. However, another - from whom I perceived to be a lovely lady, says we must make decisions about people which are not based on 'emotion'.
Well how do you define emotion?
Possible a series of events or facts which are based on personal, or observed via others 'trials and tribulations' so you make what you would think of as a 'informed decision'
I have lent money, 16 weeks wages back in the UK to my best mate, who I knew very well, whilst working in Algeria. Never saw it again.
i've lent money or done work for 'best mates' on a repciprical situation, and never been recompensed. I have again lent money to a very close work mate who was in dire straights, never to see it again.
These are not people who have walked in off the street, nor a friend of friends! These are close intimate friends and work colleagues, who on a working basis, you get to know pretty well.
So I would say, my decisions have been made on logic, and of course - emotion!!

Cheers

gbmacca

[Toccata]

Your mechanic is about the same level of scum as those pilfering from burnt houses over here in Gippsland
He can't be too far away??
Get some big mates and go and get the motors back.
Give up on ever getting money from him, but at least with the engines you can start again.
My 2 bobs worth

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Toccata

Your mechanic is about the same level of scum as those pilfering from burnt houses over here in Gippsland
He can't be too far away??
Get some big mates and go and get the motors back.
Give up on ever getting money from him, but at least with the engines you can start again.
My 2 bobs worth

You can trust everyone with something. You can trust nearly no one with everything. The trick is to know where any given person falls on that spectrum. Even the most amoral person can usually be trusted to act in his/her own perceived self interest. However twisted that perception may be.

According to the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, about 1% of the population are sociopaths, who are completely untrustworthy. It sounds like you've met a few. Sociopaths have radar for conscientious people, like you. It's the risk of having a big heart - that you'll trip over a few sociopaths along the way. They can be very charming, but their game is to develop your confidence (thus the term "con" job) and then strike. They have no remorse, no empathy, and dismiss their behavior glibly by believing their victims needed a lesson. Evil is the absence of empathy.

Most of the population isn't like that. But a few run ins with these characters can certainly carry the risk of making one cynical. If you let that happen, it's not going to hurt him. It'll hurt you.

My advise to you is to reflect on how often people do keep their word with you. And that you can judge someone by their friends. Their friends are a reflection of them. If they have no friends - that's a very bad sign. Sociopaths are usually loners. And on the other hand, those who can count you as a friend should be elevated in other people's estimation of them.

[Cpt Pat]

By the way, I'm very saddened by the troubles you all are having with the fires. I'm in Northern California, and we have had our share of fires too. My heart goes out to you all.

[tkeithlu]

I really can't recommend the muscle act, satisfying as it might be, because it could turn out very differently from your dreams. Escalated fight, violation of some other law in the process, etc.

You may also hear Sociopaths called psychopahts (the really old term) or "anti-social personality disorders," the term most recent and a little difficult to grasp, since such people appear to be very social just before they do you harm. They are, indeed, the bane of the existance of anyone with empathy in his or her heart. Unfortunately, they keep getting elected to public office.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

I really can't recommend the muscle act, satisfying as it might be, because it could turn out very differently from your dreams. Escalated fight, violation of some other law in the process, etc.

You may also hear Sociopaths called psychopahts (the really old term) or "anti-social personality disorders," the term most recent and a little difficult to grasp, since such people appear to be very social just before they do you harm. They are, indeed, the bane of the existance of anyone with empathy in his or her heart. Unfortunately, they keep getting elected to public office.

About about one in five corporate executives -- and persons in prison -- are psychopaths. It seems these evil people take one path or the other.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/1-in-5-ceos-are-psychopaths-australian-study-finds/

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by rbk

I think your legal system is more or less the same as ours in Canada...

And the same in the US. I've experienced 3 serious thefts (total 100K+) in recent years that occurred in the US while I was abroad. In each case the circumstances would have been at minimum investigated 30+ years ago if not prosecuted by police/the govt. In each case the police said "well, you met the person before in life, therefor it's a civil deal, call your insurance company and/or get an attorney." It's as though society is accepting the expectation for insurance companies and private attorneys to serve what used to be a government function.

And look to see what your peers do in support. They blame you for being too...civilized.

This is plainly the stuff of a sick society too accepting of the behavior (in unwillingness to pay the taxes to pay the police to do their traditional jobs) and too willing to put extra onus on you to exercise your law of the jungle skills (but insisting that you not develop a bad attitude in the process).

My solace comes from reviewing philosophy, including the Cynics and the Stoics, and history...better understanding that it's always been this way. Maybe things were better 50 years ago, maybe not...but I attribute the economic stagnation in my lifetime to this overall trend. Trying to explain high $ loss to people who have no wealth gets more contempt than sympathy (which they are not adequately capable of in the first place).

Otherwise, two popular books in recent years on sociopathy:
The Sociopath Next Door [more relavent]
Martha Stout PhD (she says 4%)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FCJXTC...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QUCOAS...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

[RaymondR]

What excuse is he giving for not returning the motors to you?

[gbmacca]

His reasoning, which back in November, I thought had some validity, was his ex de facto was having a breakdown as their son, aged 13 - was 'transitioning' and self harming- so he needed to sort that out.

'Fine, but can I come and look at all the parts you have bought with my money, and to plot a progress commencing mid Jan?'

"Nope!"

'Umm right ----'

gbmacca

[HankOnthewater]

[QUOTE=Cpt Pat;3054625]About about one in five corporate executives -- and persons in prison -- are psychopaths. It seems these evil people take one path or the other /QUOTE]

Hehehe, no, they have not taken different paths, one lot has been caught, the other ones not.

Like Singularity, I had a similar experience: $23k of gear stolen from my boat, and police stated: ... a civil case... nothing to do with us, even when I told the police who was responsible, had witnesses, and where some of the gear was.

Sorry to hear about your plight GBMacca. If lawful negotiations do not solve your trouble, you may like to publish the guy's name.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by gbmacca

The police say it is a 'civil matter' which I thought that theft was a police matter - and will not assist.

You entered into a contract with him and he simply failed to fulfill his end of the bargain. That's not a crime, hence the "civil matter." I got the same line when i sold my car as a naive 17-year old to a fellow who was going to pay me "tomorrow...but i need the registration so I can get a plate today." I still had a set of keys but a small claims judgement is worth diddly-squat if you can't find the car and the guy is now in jail.

Luckily it didn't ruin my faith in humans totally, but I generally never enter an agreement I can't afford to have go sideways. It sucks to say, but "c'est la vie."

[dfelsent]

I always try to assume the best of people and always prepare to be disappointed.
Usually it works out but sometimes not. I’ve got a tenant right now that I am disappointed with. Trying to understand and help him but not screw myself. Or him.
That being said, in your position I would be upset, sad, and furious. The furious bit is not helpful for me.
Maybe for future reference you want to think carefully about how you choose who to trust. Not whether to trust. I think life is to short for that.
Maybe useless advice but remember that you are the one who is trying to do the right thing. Other’s failures are not your responsibility even if the consequences are.