How you deal with crews on passages?

[CatNewBee]

Thank you, that is what I also think.

If they are professional enough / have some experience with crew positions, this will be a non - issue.

The problem merely is, as a liveaboard couple you do not behave as a crew. You know the captain / admiral thing... ;-) And this can be a bad example for the novices.

We have a year time to think about it. Maybe we will give it a try first on a shorter sail in the Med, where the shores are nearby - just in case - to see if we like it or not....

Finaly we then can learn from our mistakes or succes.

[Time2Go]

I have been crew on many boats
so my two cents,
There are plenty of experienced sailors
that don’t own Water boats">blue water boats but own
coastal or lake boats. These sailors
like to make passages, myself included.
I’m working on putting together a circumnavigation
on various boats over the next few years
SO
Plain and simple,
Ask for references and sailing CV.
and any certifications. I happen to hold RYA
above ASA but that’s just me.
Then do a Skype call.
Trust your instincts
It is however important to spell out exactly
what your expectations are and who pays for what.
No one should expect surprises.
Another indicator for you would be the questions
prospective crew ASK YOU.

I have turned down more than a few spots
because I thought the owner was out of their league.
One fellow told me he had a Coast Guard
6 pack, turns out Yup he HAD one, expired
twenty years prior. Out of date life rafts & Epirbs
Sat phones with no airtime, Yada Yada

As for the ARC, I have done two events
the Delmarva and ARC USA.
Great Fun,Great Parties, made lifelong friends
don’t discount it
Fair Winds
Cheers
Neil
PS: I might be interested as crew on your ARC
crossing. Check out Oceancrewlink.com

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Ah, the eternal question


It's been discussed quite a lot, and a trawl through the archives would be rewarding.


Some people love volunteer crew; others hate them. A very good predictor for how well you will do with volunteer crew is whether or not you are gregarious and like to do things in teams, or whether like many sailors, you are a loner. Another key indicator is what kind of a leader you are. People accustomed to organizing and leading groups of people, maybe in their work lives, usually do very well with volunteer crew. And then if you have experience hiring people -- you will know how to choose people based on a small amount of information.



I use a lot of volunteer crew on my boat, and my experiences have been 99% positive. Some volunteer crew I've had over the years have become lifelong friends. Look for people who are easy to get along with and who are energetic and eager to help and work -- those are the key qualities. Assume that sailing skills advertised are greatly exaggerated (not always intentionally), but this is also not generally a big problem, as there are always a million things to do on board, including especially simply keeping a good watch, which don't necessarily require a lot of sailing skill.


It's a great idea to invite prospective crew out for a "test sail", but just don't think that this is a guaranty against a bad decision -- in fact, the one bad crew selection decision I have made in the last 10 years was in fact a guy I had taken on a significant offshore test sail beforehand!


Some other tips:


1. Be absolutely clear at the outset and in every detail what the terms of the arrangement are -- who pays for what, what duties are involved, etc. etc. etc. etc. Like in any business deal -- don't assume anything is understood, if it hasn't been specifically discussed. And don't just dictate all of this -- make sure the prospective crew expresses in detail what his or her expectations are, to be sure that nothing is left assumed or unsaid. Get it in writing -- at least a detailed exchange of emails.



2. Best crew in terms of skills are people who own their own boats, or owned them for a long time in the past, and did the same kind of sailing you are doing. Qualifications mean much less than this. In fact, a person with little experience but a lot of RYA qualifications, perhaps with some charter experience, can be a liability, and in many cases a fresh beginner can be better material to work with. Professional mariners or former pro mariners are often the best crew of all.



3. Be sure to do a thorough safety briefing and thorough familiarization with the boat, equipment, and everything. I like to do live man overboard drills with people actually pulled out of the water. In general, it's better to be more formal, when you are sailing with volunteer crew, than when you are alone --- do briefings at watch handover, brief the crew regularly on the passage plan, any changes, weather, etc.



4. Be sure you agree about standards of watchkeeping, and make it clear before choosing someone, what you expect. Many people, including some quite experienced sailors, have incredible ideas about what it means to keep watch. I once woke up to find a crew on watch sitting in the cockpit, facing aft, staring at the stars, with the boat just about to run into the wrong lane of a TSS, because he'd never once looked at the plotter, and the pilot was on wind mode . . ..


5. If you have tough decisions to make -- like go or no go into iffy weather -- you may find it useful to have consensus with the crew before making them. You are always responsible in every case, but for decisions requiring sacrifices or imposing risks on the crew, I like to get them to buy into those decisions. That's a question of leadership style, of course, but a strong leader is never afraid to exchange views with the team.


6. Crewseekers is the best resource I've used. Prospective crew have to pay to get on, so that screens out a lot of the less serious. I also use the YBW crew exchange sometimes.

This is quite sound stuff, save that there are RYA people on that "ladder" who need to "build miles" to qualify for their next steps. Say "day skipper to yachtmaster coastal". Such people could be good to have because they need your sign off in their logbook to claim their miles. Very good points about the watch-keeping...it's best kept consistent, although there are different schools of thought on how this is best done.


I would preface leaving dock or anchorage with a thorough run down of ship's routine, the location of all safety gear, and sensible rules like "always clip on" and "if you are alone on watch and need to go on deck, hammer on the skipper's ceiling until she appears."

[elittke]

Many variables. I have a Masters 50 Ton license, and have crewed and Skippered many a voyage. I would join a trip for no pay depending on Captain or lots of pay. Its a matter of being nice. Message me if you want experience, good cheer, and no drama.

Cheers
EL

[Toys_with_time]

Agree with much that has been said. I have had great success using the "crew wanted" on this forum and only one bad experience with someone who thought it was a cruise ship where you didn't have to contribute to live-aboard life. Many have come back in subsequent years and become friends but I do as a minimum try to have a Skype call to gauge compatibility.



Experience worries me much less than ability to pitch in & get on with others - there are many jobs on board that require no sailing knowledge and basic watch keeping is easy to teach. I will always do the skilled jobs if things get difficult but having someone you can ask to hold / pull / whatever always helps. Clear instructions is the key with demonstration if appropriate.


I do have a fairly comprehensive contract that I send out ahead (copies available if anyone wants one) which covers responsibilities if things do go wrong but under maritime law my understanding is that the skipper is ultimately responsible for his crew whatever the small print says.



A few days trial cruise prior to a crossing seems like a good idea if time permits but if not, gut instincts (and a perusal of their Facebook page) may be all you can go on.


And without trying to stir up the cat vs mono argument I do find it is useful to have more spaces were people can be by themselves or in a separate group when they want.



TwT

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Toys_with_time

Agree with much that has been said. I have had great success using the "crew wanted" on this forum and only one bad experience with someone who thought it was a cruise ship where you didn't have to contribute to live-aboard life. Many have come back in subsequent years and become friends but I do as a minimum try to have a Skype call to gauge compatibility.



Experience worries me much less than ability to pitch in & get on with others - there are many jobs on board that require no sailing knowledge and basic watch keeping is easy to teach. I will always do the skilled jobs if things get difficult but having someone you can ask to hold / pull / whatever always helps. Clear instructions is the key with demonstration if appropriate.


I do have a fairly comprehensive contract that I send out ahead (copies available if anyone wants one) which covers responsibilities if things do go wrong but under maritime law my understanding is that the skipper is ultimately responsible for his crew whatever the small print says.



A few days trial cruise prior to a crossing seems like a good idea if time permits but if not, gut instincts (and a perusal of their Facebook page) may be all you can go on.


And without trying to stir up the cat vs mono argument I do find it is useful to have more spaces were people can be by themselves or in a separate group when they want.



TwT

We’ve had trouble with crew twice (who thought it was a free cruise ship), can you please send a copy of your contract to me email in the cf PM section. Thanks much

Ken

[barnakiel]

It has been some time since I managed a bigger crew (of 6).


I find the skills are just like managing people in a small office. Simply find who is best and happiest at which task then assign accordingly. Then make sure characters do not collide and give some flex to it all where you can. Make sure people are doing it for themselves rather than for money or for some artificial and remote maybe to them, goals.


Money is the worst motivator. Just make sure it is the amount that actually fits the effort. Mind a crew on a boat is, in practical terms, on a 24 hours standby anyway. So do not offer plain 8 hrs land money to anybody who is expected to seriously work on a yacht.


Free your crew while in port. Leave only one person onboard to do the menial and mind the ship while you are ashore. Let other people enjoy the locations you sail too - they may be unable to do the same otherwise.


Get rid of bad apples early. One can spoil the whole batch in no time.


Make friends with your crew. See the person. If at any point things get wrong, a crew may just do their paid duty but a person will never leave another person in need.


Cheers,
barnakiel

[boatman61]

Get them drunk and send them to bed outa the way..

[MartinR]

I am very much in favour of using crew on passages. This is a chance to meet new people from all over the world and gain new insights and experiences. It also makes passages safer and less exhausting. On sailing with crew your roles change from husband and wife/girlfriend to captain and mate. This is a huge difference. Handling crew requires patience, the ability to adapt and sometimes just plain stubbornness and the willingness to address conflicts.

For me sailing experience is not very important in a crew member. At least not when sailing in benign areas. Most people pick up the necessary skills for watch keeping quite fast.

I have been captain on sail training vessels, and I have sailed and taught sailing to hundreds of trainees. I have encountered people I was not very fond of, but never a bad crew member. I know they exist, but they seem very rare.

Clear rules and information are important. Like a watch schedule, which functions even watch/person has in sailing and in the schedule. For example normally we always have the 4-8 morning watch bake bread. Make clear from the beginning that, while you listen to people, decisions are not made by committee.

Then also explain to your crew that you very much like them off the boat while in harbour Sometimes you need a little privacy/quiet.

[Lihuedooley77]

Good question....

We have had non paid crew of many different sorts.

Most were outstanding, and wanted to help out and learn, others were the lords gift to the planet and would not lift a finger to do any thing.

We no longer go on sailing vacations with anyone else on board. We both are very skilled SAILORS, so now it is just Erica and I.

Good Crews :

Boaters, non sailors, hubby is retired, lady is first officer flying the heavies for Fed-EX. Great people, We were going to be sailing the BVI. Phil, went to the Library back in Minnesota, got two books on basic sailing and read them both. They were great, and ate up any additional instruction that was offered by Erica and I.

Knowledgeable sailing friends, who brought non sailors with them.

BVI, Guy was just fine, his sig other was gods gift to the human race. Never lifted a finger to help with anything on board the vessel. Did not help with any meals, or make a sandwich for anyone else, or even bring up a snack or drink to others in the cockpit. Paraded around topless, and was 100% in love with her. As to any cleaning, or non nautical duties , she refused all, and even wore a T shirt, that said, something like...

Tuff...I am on Vacation.

Point being, you never know what the personalities and values of the person is that you invite on board. The male split the cost of the bare boat charter and was good crew.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boat Delivery from Caba San Lucas , Mexico to Los Angeles.

Non paid, 3 males from our sailing club wanted to come along for the experience. Erica, also joined us. Unknown to me, the three were full blown alcoholics, and that turned out very bad. Erica was the only one that I could trust. Two weeks, I had very little sleep, and took the undesireable watches , that I do not mind. Due to a car accident many years ago with severe head and face injuries I cannot smell. Discovered a few days in that they were drinking their booze out of coffee cups.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good crews in Australia, Tahiti, Tonga, several BVI trips, the Bahamas, the Windwards and Grenadines.

As to finding hired crew in various ports of call, that would not be on our list.

Now, Erica and I sail the BVI, Tahiti, Ireland, and other destinations on our own, but, once moored or anchored or in slip....we meet and talk story and party with other sailors, or non sailors ashore and have a great time.

I would say, use as much due dilligence as possible, and research back grounds thoroughly for hired crew.

With friends, you get what you get. In those cases, I find those who want to learn and they are helpful crew...others can help with the cooking, making drinks, cleaning, bringing up snacks , and just generally assist.

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

We are discussing pros and cons of joining the ARC next year for the passage. I also think - if we decide to invite crew for the crossing - it would be a good idea to offer some sailing in the Med upfront to get to know each other - before committing on the passage and also offer some sailing time on board in the Caribbean as incentive for the help during the passage if appreciated. We would expect to share provisioning costs and fees (if any) during the time on board.

Is this a realistic scenario? How have you done this - or do you prefer shorthanded passages - just the two of you?

Thank you for your comments, thoughts and advise!

I agree with and think you have been given some very good advice on crew so I'll just make comment on your ARC plans having just completed ARC 2017. Las Palmas to St Lucia.

Here are what I consider to be the pros and cons.

Cons first:
1) Fixed departure date is a terrible idea. We left a week too early, which gave us two choices: 1, head south and motor for 5 days or 2, head west into some nasty weather. This burned a lot of fuel for many boats and resulted in 28 dnf's.
2) Nov 19th is quite early and the trades hadn't established yet so we had a very slow crossing.
3) £2000 for a cat with 5 crew.
4) I'd have liked to visit Barbados instead of St Lucia. (Beating to Barbados after is not a good idea).
5) Arrival in the Caribbean early. It will be wet and windy for the next 3 months (25kts every day). This could be a pro for some tho.

Pros:
This could be a very long list but I'll try to be balanced and include the ones that matter the most to us but in no particular order.
1) The support from other vessels (before, during and after) 220 boats headed the same way means there is always a boat not too far away.
2) The level of professionalism from the ARC staff - We learned so much from everyone. From the guy that did our safety inspection to Chris Tibbs' weather seminars (I attended 90% of the seminars) that we have carried thru the rest of our sailing since.
3) Commoradie - We made friends during the ARC that we then sailed most of the Caribbean with and who will be life long friends. (This may also solve your future crewing issues - you'll meet enough sailors to have crew for the rest of your rtw trip).
4) Boat prep - The ARC requires a level of readiness that ensures you're not the only well equipped vessel out there.
5) Route advice - You'll be in touch with at least half a dozen other yachts on different routes who can tell you where the winds is (or isn't). Sat comms are required by the ARC so everyone is on email.

All in all, for our first ocean crossing, we were always going to join a rally being newbies (I think we had 4,000nm by the time we started) and very glad that we did it with the ARC.

Our crew split all the food costs and paid their own air fares, thank god. I couldn't have afforded to pay for the food, never mind wages and flights.
I paid for the ARC fees and fuel.

We had a dream crossing and there's a few episodes on our channel which give a bit of insight to what each day is like. Hope this helps.

Dave

[CatNewBee]

Hi Dave,

thanks a lot, that is also what I think. There are other loose group crossings after the ARC, they are not officialy organised, and they have fewer participants, however - there is communication too and possible help on the way. What you may miss is the theoretical and practical preparation / courses and of course the parties / events.

I am pretty sure, you'll meet a lot of ARC people later in the Caribbean too, even not been part of the ARC. Regarding later crew ... many participants sail on their own gear, but chances are some of the crew may hop on board at some point. I guess, most ARC crew will leave after the crossing soon, so you will very likely not see them again in the Caribbean or on later passages, except they are boat-surfing around the globe.

[Toys_with_time]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We’ve had trouble with crew twice (who thought it was a free cruise ship), can you please send a copy of your contract to me email in the cf PM section. Thanks much

Ken

Copy of my crew contract sent to your email address


TwT

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Toys_with_time

Copy of my crew contract sent to your email address


TwT

Many thanks

Your contract is excellent, we can use it with very few changes since it covers just about everything. One thing to add will be crew or guests having a special endorsement on their passport. DO NOT allow this person on your boat. We were recently turned away at two countries and later found out the guest was a convicted sexual predator against a minor. His passport didn’t indicate this and we didn’t know until his passport was confiscated by interpol. Then he became our problem... a huge nightmare.

[Lionshooter]

I’d urge you to consider hiring someone like Captain Ron. Problem solved.