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Old 14-09-2014, 11:42   #61
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
I am not a retirement or investment advisor. But, here are four mutual funds that we have invested in during the last couple decades.

The dollar amount shown is the CURRENT value (Sept 15, 2014) of $10,000 invested with that firm on Sept 15 1999, 2004, 2009. In other words I am showing the 15 year, 10 year, and 5 year growth of $10,000.

PIMCO Total Return Institutional (PTTRX)
$26,951
$18,100
$12,998

Fidelity ContraFund (FCNTX)
$30,500
$27,177
$21,310

Vanguard Equity Income (VPEIX)
$27,908
$21,316
$19,389

Vanguard MidCap (VMCIX)
$43,256
$27,823
$22,989

Of course - your mileage may vary!

A $10,000 investment growing at 7% compounded annually, (no tax & no fees) would be worth
$27,590 in 15 years
$19,672 in 10 years
$14,026 in 5 years
I fear I have pissed someone off trying to present my prospective which is been there done that. If that is the case, cash an investment in. I didn't mean to assault any ones finances. I'm just a po boy that has pissed away money on and built one offs. Enjoyed every minute of the boats but other that it was not smart although it was pin money.

Sorry if my attempt to be helpful offended. I'll say no more fearing I would be trite.
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Old 14-09-2014, 22:03   #62
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

Cadence - you quote me above this statement but I am not sure why or what you are talking about?


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I fear I have pissed someone off trying to present my prospective which is been there done that. ... Sorry if my attempt to be helpful offended. I'll say no more fearing I would be trite.
I was responding to a question from BrantleyChuck - I don't think I was responding to anything you wrote here.

Whats Up?
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Old 15-09-2014, 08:33   #63
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Cadence - you quote me above this statement but I am not sure why or what you are talking about?




I was responding to a question from BrantleyChuck - I don't think I was responding to anything you wrote here.

Whats Up?
I screwed up on who sent your post and the intent. Entirely my error sorry.
for the age
Probably oldtimers. Looking again I would look into those investments if it where not for my MFG. date.
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Old 15-09-2014, 10:19   #64
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

BnB, Scot, I did say, pretty simply, that was the ASKING price, not an actual SALE price. Yes, the boat is currently SELLING, meaning, an offer will be accepted and a sale made, at 25c on the dollar. Folks should be able to decide for themselves if that's practical, likely, or if it won't sell because the price, or the market, is wrong.

Cadence, when you talk about donating any vehicle these days? For more than a decade now, the IRS has had a very firm policy. The donation is not valued until it has been sold to a buyer, or kept in use by the charity for something like two years. The value of a donation can be zero, if it is not sold and has to be scrapped.

Tacoma, if your mutual fund investments have all returned over 10% annually in the last five years, you've been either very lucky, or smarter than most of the market. Most of them do not pay off that well. Many don't beat the market. And last time I heard, the ones that paid off well, usually didn't pay off as well after they were over five years old. What's the saying, the only sure things are death and taxes, and some folks claim they can beat at least one of those as well?(G)

Banks, lenders, generally don't want to own boats. Or houses. Or cars. Big boats can move fast, which makes them harder to locate if they need to be repossessed. And then, even if they are foreclosed while docked in their home port, the lender has to ask "Now how quickly can I get rid of this thing?" I'd hate to ask what is the average time on the market for any 51' catamaran, and what it costs to maintain it during that time. Without any other collateral....if anyone would touch it, I'd hate to see what interest rate they would want to offset the risk.
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Old 15-09-2014, 10:51   #65
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

Bring it to a level that is easy to understand.

John Smith decides to sell his beautiful 40'
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Old 15-09-2014, 11:22   #66
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

Hellosailor, I think we are drifting from the original post buts fine if it is productive. Maybe I was lucky getting by with an appraisal less than nine years age. The point being even at that it was probably 40% of what I had in it. After the tax laws get done with it who knows? Point being one offs are not a sound investment but great if you don't mind the down side if you must divest yourself of one and can afford the investment.

I agree Tacoma made some good investments. He did say over the last couple of decade so I assume he locked them in during the good times. I should be so smart I think my long term are getting 4%. Not FDIC insured, but with the Fed being what it is insurance companies might be sounder.
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Old 15-09-2014, 11:31   #67
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

"Tacoma, if your mutual fund investments have all returned over 10% annually in the last five years, you've been either very lucky, or smarter than most of the market. "

I did not say ALL the funds made those kinds of returns. However, over the last 30 years we have settled on a group of about 20 funds that provide pretty consistent returns over 10% when considered over a 10-year business cycle.

I do not need to be "smarter than most of the market." I only need to hire fund managers, by investing in those funds, who can outperform the market within the parameters specified in the fund's prospectus. I hire a person - I do not pick stocks or bonds - something I gave up on about 22 years ago.

10% annual return compounded for 5 years is a 61% increase in value. A $10,000 investment in September 2009 would be worth $16,100 in September 2014 at about a 10% annual compounded return.

Look at the September 2014 value of $10,000 invested in September 2009 in the following funds. I provided more details above:

FCNTX $21,310 ( about 16% annual )

VPEIX $19,389 ( about 14% annual )

VMCIX $22,989 ( about 18% annual )

Go to Morningstar and you can find many other mutual funds with equal or better performance.

For example, FCNTX has provided a 13.5% (annual compounded) return since September 1987 (25 years) when we began putting serious money into it.

However, these are also the funds that lost the most money in 2001 and 2008. They are higher risk, higher return funds. You need to be able to leave your money in them when they are down and only take it out while they are up.

And I will stress, yet again, the mutual funds we use to provide day-to-day cash and any money we might need in the next three years are invested in much more conservative mutual funds. Those funds have only returned 6% - 7% annual during the last five years.

Nothing Magical - I've been doing this for over 40 years.
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Old 15-09-2014, 11:56   #68
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

Your A risk take I'm not in the market. I wish I had gotten a lot more at a guaranteed 4% ,such is life. Since your only 4 years my junior, I think I'm 71, had you considered, moving to more conservative investments, given the shitty state of our economy.
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Old 15-09-2014, 16:49   #69
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

I am really not sure what posting all these fund data is for.

In 2009 the Dow was below 10,000 now it's pushing 17,000. I would be surprised if any fund managers were losing in this period.

Every cycle everyone gets giddy with growth.
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Old 15-09-2014, 17:40   #70
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

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I am really not sure what posting all these fund data is for.

In 2009 the Dow was below 10,000 now it's pushing 17,000. I would be surprised if any fund managers were losing in this period.

Every cycle everyone gets giddy with growth.
But some funds do better than others and have very long term gains. the following does not seem to be short term growth

For example, FCNTX has provided a 13.5% (annual compounded) return since September 1987 (25 years) when we began putting serious money into it.

If you invested $10,000 in FCNTX in May 1967 it would be worth $2.7 Million today. That is about 12.5% compounded annually.

Inflation would have accounted for $71,000 of that growth.

A similar investment in the S&P 500 would have grown to $858,000 in the same period. Investing in the equivalent of the DOW large market index would have also grown to about $840,00.

By any measure mutual funds like FCNTX demonstrate impressive returns. But, they can also lose a lot of money very quickly in a down market.
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Old 15-09-2014, 18:08   #71
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

And now for some practical advice...

Given the impossibility of selling this boat, maybe the seller would be agreeable to holding a note.
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Old 15-09-2014, 18:45   #72
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I am really not sure what posting all these fund data is for.

In 2009 the Dow was below 10,000 now it's pushing 17,000. I would be surprised if any fund managers were losing in this period.

Every cycle everyone gets giddy with growth.
I'm not worried about the Dow, my concern is the dollar I have today will be worth .95 tomorrow and so on.
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Old 15-09-2014, 18:55   #73
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

"my concern is the dollar I have today will be worth .95 tomorrow and so on"

But that's not a concern, that's simply history.

One gallon of gasoline in 1972? 28 cents. Now $3.59?
One slice of pizza in any big city in 1965? 15 cents, now two to four bucks.
A nicely loaded Camaro in 1972? $3500. Now about $40,000.
Rent? Bus tickets? Houses?

Oh, and then there's potato chips. What's with potato chips, somewhere in the last 5-6 years, the price of those things has TRIPLED. Way exceeded the inflation rate on everything else. A $1.49 bag was always on sale for 99c, and it crept down from 8 ounces to 6 ounces, and then it crept back up to what, three bucks for an 8 ounce bag? $3.49? Rarely on sale for two bucks??

Kinds like the new 11-ounce "pound" of coffee, huh?

Oh wait, a nice private house in NYC's outer boroughs in 1945, about $5000. Today? Same house, a million to a million five.

So yes, you can rest assured that every dollar you own today, will be worth much less tomorrow.
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Old 15-09-2014, 20:28   #74
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

"I'm not worried about the Dow, my concern is the dollar I have today will be worth .95 tomorrow and so on."

"So yes, you can rest assured that every dollar you own today, will be worth much less tomorrow."


AH! - the power of inflation to help decrease the cost of a fixed mortgage.

yet another reason to rent the money you use to pay for the boat. then pay back that money with dollars that are always decreasing in value.
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Old 15-09-2014, 20:30   #75
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Re: How to Finance a One-off Custom Boat?

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And now for some practical advice...

Given the impossibility of selling this boat, maybe the seller would be agreeable to holding a note.
I've given up on buying a custom boat - now I am just trying to figure out how to buy a production boat and live aboard. See my questions at:

I am being told that Liveaboard Boats loans are now impossible - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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