How Small Is Too Small?

[weedeater64]

Originally Posted by newt

It would be interesting to see if an experienced, can do it all sailor could leave on a cruise for less than 1000 USD. If anyone does this let me know and I will send you an old but functional VHF.

Is that 1,000 USD fit out or
boat and fit out?

[SemperParatus]

you may want to hire someone to survey an older boat - they know what they are doing, after all... and may find problems you would have missed....

[Chattcatdaddy]

Leave for a cruise with $1000 and see how far they can go?

Didn`t James Baldwin of Atomvoyages.com leave with $500 on his first circumnaviagtion? So I guess thats settled.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Chattcatdaddy

Leave for a cruise with $1000 and see how far they can go?
Didn`t James Baldwin of Atomvoyages.com leave with $500 on his first circumnaviagtion? So I guess thats settled.

Not exactly "settled", according to Baldwin, himself.

2. How much does it cost to go cruising?
➥ Atom Voyages | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).

“ ... The short answer is: as much as you've got. I've met people cruising on every conceivable budget and I do not think the enjoyment they got out of cruising had much to do with how much money they spent. Actually, I did not meet any people cruising on a high budget that looked like they were getting anything near the priceless experiences of some people who know how to make the most of life afloat. People ask "Can I afford to go cruising?" when they should ask if they can afford not to go. With careful choices it costs less than half as much to voyage around the world as it does to maintain a typical Western lifestyle ashore. We can calculate the dollars it costs, but how do you count the value of a life not fully lived?

I left on my first circumnavigation in 1984 with just $500 in savings. That got me across the Pacific in five months without noticeable hardship. When the money was nearly gone, I took a job for three months at a boatyard in New Guinea, the proceeds of which carried me across two more oceans and back home a year and a half later. Since then, tremendous inflation in costs associated with cruising, such as the 1,000% increase in fees for the Panama Canal and various extortionate government rip-offs for "cruising fees" (the $150-$300 fee per boat for entry to the Bahamas is becoming typical nowadays), mean these days you'll need to spend much more than when I first began cruising. Also, when I started earning and saving more money, I sometimes was tempted to buy more optional boat gear and spend more money on all manor of things.

As of 2003 we spent an average of about $800 a month for the two of us, including all travel, food, entertainment and boat expenses. This does not include the very occasional but unavoidable big expenses like replacing sails or major overhauls to the boat. We could spend less if we needed to and easily spend more if we're not careful. The "average" cruising couple spends at least double that, particularly when you factor in all their various insurance and marina expenses. I find when I have more money available I'm tempted to spend it on "optionals" and when I have less, I tighten my belt, so to speak. During most of my cruising years I've kept my spending down to the point where I need only work an average of three months a year. I've never worked longer than about two years at a time without stopping for an extended cruise and have gone up to three years without earning any money other than a few small payments for articles. Not that I'm particularly lazy, but life is not all about work and wages. Another benefit of a small boat, especially an older boat like the Triton, is that your investment is small enough that you can more easily replace the entire boat if disaster strikes.

Part of how much you spend depends on what the cost of living is in the areas you cruise, but an even larger portion depends on the choices you make. Will you stay at marinas or anchor out? Eat at restaurants or onboard? Travel by plane to visit relatives or wait to see them until you finally sail home? Buy insurance for every conceivable threat or take your chances? Have a boat full of electronic gadgets that require frequent repair and replacement or become self-sufficient and choose only equipment that is essential and learn how to maintain it yourself? Will you buy imported foods that you are used to or learn how to use cheaper locally produced foods? Will you buy a new budget-busting inflatable dinghy every third year or knock something together out of plywood? The list of choices goes on and on, even to the little things like the crew giving each other haircuts to reusing washcloths for cleanups instead of buying paper towels. Mastering the art of frugal cruising means you have found how to live aboard independently and happily and perhaps even indefinitely.

This brings us back to choice of boat. A big boat is likely to cost so much that you feel compelled to buy boat insurance. A smaller, less expensive boat can be sailed without insurance and be replaced if needed through modest savings kept in reserve. For example, say I had 40K to get started cruising today. I'd rather self-insure by putting 20K into a bank CD and use it to buy another Triton-type boat if I lost mine than to buy a 40K boat and stay home working to pay for the insurance to replace it. My point is not to criticize those on bigger boats that have found a way to make it work for them. They're doing it and that's fine. My goal is to give the beginner - the undecided and inexperienced cruiser - another viewpoint to consider before getting in over his head financially. You did say you want to sail, not work, didn't you? ... “

[Chattcatdaddy]

Ok! So I might have failed to mention that James Baldwin did this in the 80`s(never let the facts get in the way of a good story) Still though cruising is still very affordable if you watch how you spend your money.

[George Wade]

We've already been hit by 100% inflation in British Columbia 2009 and it's not quite Halloween, even.

The Super 7 Lotto was upgraded to LottoMax or something fishy: a $3 ticket is now $6 and only cruising sailors notice; the highly stressed citizens were fooled by the name change.

I've given up and gotten back to business: expecting to buy something twice as old as hoped for and similar luck with any crew who sign on.

[plebian99]

30 ft of boat 9ft of beam is ideal. I would not go less than this. I did it on a Folkboat and it was cramped. I sold the Folkboat and bought a 30 footer, with 9ft of beam that was very comfortable. It was a Halberg Rassy Monsun. 34ft of boat and 10ft of beam is luxurious. In this size boat it has a feel of a very small 1 bedroom apartment. You can eat, cook, wash and relax in comfort. You really also need comfort when going to the toilet, if you cant relax your muscles you will get constipated! Something like the Vancouver 27 is Ideal, however they have a cult following and the prices are silly. Same comments apply to the Vancouver 34. My only advice, with a small boat is this, dont go into the Southern Ocean, its a nightmare in a small boat! Very few 28ft to 34ft boats meet the requirements of sailing safely in the Southern Ocean.

[weedeater64]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Since then, tremendous inflation in costs associated with cruising, such as the 1,000% increase in fees for the Panama Canal and various extortionate government rip-offs for "cruising fees" (the $150-$300 fee per boat for entry to the Bahamas is becoming typical nowadays)“

1,000 % to use the canal? Come on, how much is it really? Seriously.
That would be about $15,000 for Atom.
Is $150.00 an actual number for entering the Bahamas?

[Chattcatdaddy]

Originally Posted by weedeater64

Is $150.00 an actual number for entering the Bahamas?

Yes! If your boat is less than 35ft and is good for 6 months. Someone correct me if my info is wrong.

Check www.noonsite.com for entrance requirements and regulations.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by weedeater64

1,000 % to use the canal? Come on, how much is it really? Seriously.
That would be about $15,000 for Atom.
Is $150.00 an actual number for entering the Bahamas?

Canal costs:
Panama Canal Agents

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by weedeater64

Is $150.00 an actual number for entering the Bahamas?

Didn't someone say its now $750?

[Dick Pluta]

It's $150 for boats 35 feet and under and $300 for over 35 feet for a 12 month permit, which includes departure tax and 4 fishing licenses. If you want to stay you can renew for up to 2 additional years at $500 per year.

Dick Pluta
AEGEA

[weedeater64]

Originally Posted by Dick Pluta

It's $150 for boats 35 feet and under and $300 for over 35 feet for a 12 month permit, which includes departure tax and 4 fishing licenses. If you want to stay you can renew for up to 2 additional years at $500 per year.

Dick Pluta
AEGEA

That don't sound bad at all. That Panama canal sounds like nothing nice though.

[feelsgood]

Originally Posted by grovernors

Hello:

Im new, first post see <----. Ill cut right to the chase I have about .01% experience sailing, my friend took me out on a small 10 ft sail boat once. We managed to capsize the sailboat and were unable to right it. We then swam about 1/2 mile back to the beach towing this anchor with the sail still open shoreward.

I however have a passion to circumnavigate the globe and explore. Whilst being ignorant of sailing I am adept at learning.

As such here are my questions, and initial thoughts.

I have been looking into used vessels that I could bring home and fix up as a medium term project. Hands on experience doing maintenance on the vessel I feel is very important to understanding the fundamentals of sailing and an absolute requirement for solo sailing.

What size, style and composition sailing vessel will best accommodate a single passenger for circumnavigation and day to day living activities? I would prefer a wider hulled craft as the speedy arrival at the final destination is not my objective, rather Im in it for the journey.

What size and type of power plant (IE engine) is needed if any?

What are some things that I should absolutely look for or out for?

Is there an old sailboat "graveyard" that unwanted vessels goto that I may be able to find a bargin from?

Thank you for your time.

32 years ago I did a circumnav in a westerly cirrus 23ft no probs but I think thats about as small as you would want. If you want reasonably small outside but big inside look at the Dana24 great little cruiser. Regards Pete