How Small Is Too Small?

[meyermm]

You could also describe cruising as sailing around the bay but really a boat that would safely cruise down to the South Pacific or similar would be what most people needing advice would be asking on a Cruisers site.

[SweetSurrender]

Originally Posted by grovernors

Is there an old sailboat "graveyard" that unwanted vessels goto that I may be able to find a bargin from?

I too am studying much about what it takes to circumnavigate. While I never found a sailboat graveyard or an auction in time to get something of value, I have noticed any boat bargains nearly always come with a trade off of some sort attached. It appears most bargain boats always have -something- wrong.

I think it is a given that us newbies (myself included) must study our heads off rather than risk losing them while doing our undertaking. Anyone who doesn't... clearly doesn't have a head.

While looking for ways to conserve or have a more sustainable lifestyle while cruising, I've located these good books I'd like to recommend for you:


Voyaging On A Small Income ~ by Annie Hill

Ocean Cruising on a Budget ~ by Anne Hammick

The Cost Conscious Cruiser ~ by Lin & Larry Pardey

Self-Sufficient Sailor ~ by Lin & Larry Pardey

How to Sail Around the World : Advice and Ideas for Voyaging Under Sail
by Hal Roth

[roverhi]

Haunt Ebay for cheap boats. An Ike damaged V40 just sold for less than $25,000 as an example. The boat had cosmetic damage and a broken mast. Mast could possibly have been repaired cheap with a sleeve. The rest was just paint and elbow grease. All the systems were reported to be inspected and working. Have seen a Bristol 32 go for less than $13,000 in good condition and some boats under $10,000 that needed cosmetic work.

Cheap boats are out there, you just have to make stupid offers.

Do be aware that cruising gear is expensive to add. A windvane is $3,500 plus, a good auto-pilot $2,000 plus and closer to $5,000 when you figure in the spares and gear to feed it's electron hungry appetite, a new dinghy and motor are upwards of $2,000, self tailing winches more than $2,000, new sails close to 10 big ones, etc. Buying used can cut the cost way down but doubt that you could untie the dock lines for under $5,000 on a boat that hasn't any gear.

Having said the above, other than the self steering vane, most of the stuff is really things that you can get by without. Bedroom sheets will get you a long ways though not the fastest.

Aloha
Peter O.
Pearson 35 #109

[AK_sailor]

You might want to check out Beth Leonard and Evan Starzinger's article on the pros and cons of small boats vs big boats. It's online at:

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/tenBiggerboat.pdf

They are a highly experienced couple, who've circumnavigated, and also spent much time sailing in out of the way places at high latitudes. There's much other interesting stuff on their website at:

Beth & Evans

[s/v Beth]

BTW- that V-40 was discussed in the Valiants Owners Group, they thought it was not worth 5K. That said, I do think there are bargains out there, but there is alot of junk to so be careful and know alot about the boat you are interested in.
Peter- I would say that you could get by without a self steering vane if you are comfortable with tiller to sheet steering. In fact it would be interesting to see what an experienced sailor could get by with.... Lets see
Watertight boat
scraped and painted hull
self rigged
home sewn sails
good rudder
ice box
plastic water containers
old camping stove (use in cockpit only)
two buckets, used for toilet and cleaning (make your own seat for the bucket)
second hand anchors- I've retrieved them by diving, or you can buy them at flea markets
handmade oars- .
Three lanterns- red/green and white. preferably kerosene or oil
secondhand binoculars, compass, and charts.
depth sounder made from lead and fishing line.
bilge pump
handmade dingy/liferaft (made mine for less than $200) or second hand revamp.

It would be interesting to see if an experienced, can do it all sailor could leave on a cruise for less than 1000 USD. If anyone does this let me know and I will send you an old but functional VHF.

[meyermm]

When I go cruising firstly I want to be safe, secondly comfortable and of course within my budget. I do not want to go without so I can boast to others how cheaply it can be done or how all the gear (water maker, fridge etc) is unnecessary. I also do not want to winge constantly that I cannot afford all that gear. Nobody really cares or wants to hear about it. Like I said before most homes have running water, toilet and fridge what is the point in trying to cruise without these basics?

[s/v Beth]

[quote=meyermm;250273. Like I said before most homes have running water, toilet and fridge what is the point in trying to cruise without these basics?[/quote]
Ahh true matey therein lyes the rub. What are the basics?
You have a K-P 44. Beautiful boat and lots of room for extras. But lets say I only have 1000 USD to go live on a boat. Can you and still maintain health, safety and start off seaworthy? What are the basics for minimum civility?
I used to teach survival in the desert. We lived for two weeks with a blanket, knife, cord and about one dollars worth of store bought food. We were happy and civil. About that time I met a family of two kids and two adults living under picnic tables in a park. He was training in his next job and not getting paid. They were happy, but I wouldn't want to live that way.
Adventure often means doing more with less. I am just asking the question- how much less can you get away with (and still be safe and healthy)

[meyermm]

somethings in life cost more than we can afford I guess its knowing when you have reached that point. Cruising is not about surviving its about living or at least all the folks I have met cruising the Pacific have wanted

[S/V Antares]

While cruising the Bahamas last year I had the pleasure to meet two guys on a 24ft boat that they had sailed from Denmark basicly with no motor. They spend 6 months on then work for 6 months. No oven but they showed me how they bake bread etc. on a single burner cooktop.

www.prinshenrik.blogspot.com

When looking for a bargin boat visit the yards and look for boats with old registrations and get the owners number from the yard.

[Sea Wolf]

Over the years we've met people who crossed oceans in boats as small as 24 feet. That would be entirely too small for me! We were in a 33 foot Gemini Catamaran and did coastal and island cruising for 5 years, but others have crossed oceans in sister ships, so providing you have a good sturdy vessel, seamanship is the key. We have been told repeatedly that 40 foot is the minimum length for comfort and safety... something about the distance between the waves, but I've never done any research on it so can't say for certain. We now have a 50 foot Prout and are preparing to travel to the South Pacific and beyond. A circumnavigation? Not the plan, but may happen as we've always decided where we're going next when we've gown saturated with a place we're visiting.

We started from scratch, too... no knowledge, no experience... just your every day 'dirt dwellers' with a dream. The best advice I can give you is to start reading everything you can get your hands on. We also, started with Lin and Larry Pardey's books. They're great and very informative. Go to boat shows and sit in on seminars; sign up to crew at local boat clubs; go to marinas and walk the docks so you can strike up conversations with sailors. Don't be shy, most sailors are more than willing to stop to talk about their adventures. Make sure your vacations include places that rent boats; charter boats you're interested in. The list goes on and on, but I think you get the idea.

So many people asked us how we managed to drop out and go sailing that we decided to put up a website so they could read about our adventures without our having to constantly email everyone. Our website, cruiserslife.com tells how we started and did it. Maybe you can pull some viable info from it. If you have any specific stuff you'd like to know, just email us from cruisersforum or our website.

The bottom line is don't give up your dream. One foot in front of the other, one day at a time and you'll get there. Good Luck and hope to see you out there!

[Sinuous]

Sea Wolf, great to hear that it's doable. My wife and I are just starting out where you were--love the site, by the way--and have spent a year getting to that starting point. We just bought our first boat, an old Soverel 33-1.

[GordMay]

Atom's Virtual Homeport contains stories and scenes from over 20 years and two voyages around the world seeking adventure aboard our 28-foot Pearson Triton sailboat,”Atom”.

Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom with James and Mei

Specifically: Atom Voyages | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).

[s/v Beth]

Atom's homeport should be required reading. One of the first stops for me on the net. His minimalism has biased me. Plus he's a good writer!

[shibbershabber]

Originally Posted by meyermm

I get a little tired of reading how someone sailed without watermaker, shower, fridge etc. Why? ... most people in the developed world have water to drink and bath in, a refrigerator and TV so why would you not want those basics when you live aboard? If you are unable to afford those basics then maybe you can't afford to cruise. As has been already pointed out you can go in a 20ft boat if you are prepared but the chances of doing it safely are greatly diminished along with comfort which then begs the question why bother?

I would wager that many cruisers choose that lifestyle to get away from those comforts. At some point comforts can become burdens.

One man's 'basics' are another man's excess.

Sort of like going camping and taking a tent, water, rifle, knife and food.
vs. those who consider camping to be the transfer of all the crap in their house into the motorhome and driving to a campground hooking up to the elec/water and watching TV in their RV eating frozen pizzas.

Its what you make of it, go how you want to go.

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by shibbershabber

I would wager that many cruisers choose that lifestyle to get away from those comforts. At some point comforts can become burdens.

One man's 'basics' are another man's excess.

Sort of like going camping and taking a tent, water, rifle, knife and food.
vs. those who consider camping to be the transfer of all the crap in their house into the motorhome and driving to a campground hooking up to the elec/water and watching TV in their RV eating frozen pizzas.

Its what you make of it, go how you want to go.

I would disagree with the word "many" some go that way but most do not. Without trying to offend your example of the RV is a very American way most of the world still use tents, small campervans or as many Australians do caravans. Like most areas of life the middle ground is usually the most popular which is where my example came from. Not bare bones and not luxury.