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Old 13-08-2014, 02:01   #16
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Id recommend the unit we went with recently. A quick review and the why's are here
aquabase eco 65l watermaker review
For us the smaller 35l/h would have been adequate, but there's not really any benifit except for maybe a 500EU initial saving. For us the main requirements were
12V Low power consumption so it can be run easily from solar
Ease of use (this is a simple on/off/flush switch located at the nav desk
Cost
reliability
As I said in the attached post, a Spectra would have suited our needs but the equivalent model would have been 3000EU dearer
We paid around 8000EU installed in La Rochelle by Uchimata

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Old 13-08-2014, 02:09   #17
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Re: How much water will my liveabourd family use?

We have been circumnavigating for 8+ years. I track water making and water use in an excel spreadsheet.

My wife and I use a total of 55 liters per day. In the summer months when our 2 grandchildren visit, we use a total of 83 liters per day.

Usage includes:
Daily Showers
Dish washing, sometimes using an automatic dishwasher
Clothes washing in an automatic clothes washer
Drinking water and ice

If I were you I would get an 80 liter an hour water maker to run off your genset, or I would get an engine-drive 80 liter. This will have the most common membrane available which will be a Filmtec SW30 2540 membrane. It will produce very good drinking quality water (less than 175TDS) for about 2- 3 years, then it will begin a slow upward increase in TDS to 200-300. We prefer to change the membrane (about $200) when the TDS creeps above 275. Because you have little water storage on a Cat, you will likely run the water maker every 2 days.

Your emergency water while crossing oceans should be computed as the minimum daily drinking water needs times the maximum number of days you want emergency rations. It is simple, do not let your water tanks go below your minimum without starting the gen set and water maker.

Regarding brand, it is not important to buy a complete unit, but it is important to buy quality components. CAT makes the best high pressure pumps on the market and they are found worldwide. Many packages will have a computer that will open and close valves...this will be where your problem will happen. Find someone to assemble a water maker without a computer (you can turn valves) and be sure that they include a CAT pump, either driven by 230V, or engine driven with an electromagnetic clutch and a SW30 2540 membrane. Also make sure the other components like HP hose, feed pump, prefilters and membrane housings are of top quality.

I hope this helps you.

Bill
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Old 13-08-2014, 02:58   #18
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

All I can say is that I am astonished at what folks think they need to go sailing.

Why in the world does one wash down a boat with fresh water when at sea? Why must you have a shower every day? What will you do when the desalinator craps out? Can't you learn to economize on water... like cruisers have done for decades, maybe centuries?

If you think that less than 50 gallons a day (or whatever) is "camping", then you have never really been camping.

I'll likely be flamed as a dirty, reactionary old fart, but really folks, these numbers are, for me, astonishing.

No wonder California and so many other places are running out of water...

Jim
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Old 13-08-2014, 03:28   #19
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Re: How much water will my liveabourd family use?

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Some points are water maker model specific, like the forward facing scoop. Our boost pump is strong enough to not need the scoop, and I think that is just part of our design philophsy of not needing to be as "energy efficient" since we are not trying to power the unit form 12v. We have oversized the boost pump so that it always can keep the Hp pump with a positive supply of sea water in all conditions. We do recommend a 3/4" normal through hull which makes servicing and cleaning easier.
THIRD DAY - all solid advice and will definitely go the AC unit. Maybe a dumb question but when installing, can you 'T' into an existing through hull or is best to have a dedicated one?
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Old 13-08-2014, 04:30   #20
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
All I can say is that I am astonished at what folks think they need to go sailing.

Why in the world does one wash down a boat with fresh water when at sea? Why must you have a shower every day? What will you do when the desalinator craps out? Can't you learn to economize on water... like cruisers have done for decades, maybe centuries?

If you think that less than 50 gallons a day (or whatever) is "camping", then you have never really been camping.

I'll likely be flamed as a dirty, reactionary old fart, but really folks, these numbers are, for me, astonishing.

No wonder California and so many other places are running out of water...

Jim
People look a boating different ways. To us, it's like a luxury waterfront apartment with changing scenery. Others might prefer the economy pup tent weekend camping trip. The OP is setting up a new boat probably in the 300-400 euro price range. I suggest he go big on the watermaker. Its better to have large capacity when needed, plus he wont need to run the thing as long each time used.

We have many years of camping experience.
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Old 13-08-2014, 04:45   #21
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Thanks Kenomac and agree with your sentiments above. You've understood the purpose for my original question and my requirements for a 16,500 nm voyage with the family. Thanks for the advice.

I too have spent countless weeks camping in the outback and if I had the luxury of a shower every day then, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

And I thought my 11 year old son is the only person in the world that didn't like showers? You learn so much on this forum.
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:10   #22
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Everyone sees this freshwater thing differently. Personally we are more on the conserving side of the ledger but we still shower most days unless its really rough out but we don't use that much water. There are many ways to conserve water but if that isn't part of your life views then its all OK. It simply was not that long ago that voyaging sailors couldn't piss away 25-50 gallons a day as most had 100-150 gallons onboard and if offshore without rain you simply didn't have that option or luxury. Since water makers have come into play things have changed but most sailors that have been around awhile don't change old habits quickly so they tend to be the con-servers along with the folks that are on super tight budgets that can't afford water makers. We tend to use around 50L a day at anchor and less when crossing oceans.
Now the really big question is to Ghost Chaser...why do this trip over a year? Its a long way(I've sailed it a good chunk of it) and there is so much to see and do along the way. Its an opportunity that you will never repeat to have your family together sharing this great adventure...sure would be cool if you could stretch it a bit..good luck!
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:16   #23
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
All I can say is that I am astonished at what folks think they need to go sailing.

Why in the world does one wash down a boat with fresh water when at sea? Why must you have a shower every day? What will you do when the desalinator craps out? Can't you learn to economize on water... like cruisers have done for decades, maybe centuries?

If you think that less than 50 gallons a day (or whatever) is "camping", then you have never really been camping.

I'll likely be flamed as a dirty, reactionary old fart, but really folks, these numbers are, for me, astonishing.

No wonder California and so many other places are running out of water...

Jim

I'm real new at this and my longest time out so far has been two weeks.
Whole time I've been reading this thread, I was thinking my God, what do they do with all that water? Our 157 gl tank lasted two weeks with four people.

But, then I realized that I think if you have essentially an unlimited supply of water, and in fact you need to make water regularly to keep the watermaker healthy, you start "wasting" it, like fresh water deck washdowns, remember you need to find ways to use the water to keep making water regularly.
With a watermaker water conservation may be a bad thing?
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:41   #24
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

One point that tends to be overlooked in calculating needs is that at anchor there's usually no way to heat the water for showers without running the engine. As we avoid using the engines to heat the water, water use becomes much less. Cold showers are much faster, usually on the transom after a swim. Marinas have water on tap so there's no issue. If days sailing between anchorages we usually manage a hot shower with the water heated while motoring (at least raising and setting anchor) or if there's little wind we have a hot shower underway.
That's our experience, but our priority is to be self sufficient from sun and wind. Others don't have that priority and regularly run engines or generators to keep up with demand.
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:48   #25
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Re: How much water will my liveabourd family use?

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I always try and talk to our clients to understand the "why" of their purchase decisions and then follow up with them to get some feedback and where's what I'm finding along with my thinking.
This post should be a watermaker sticky...

Well informed and well rounded with no hidden agenda or bias.

Thanks!
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:53   #26
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Your family will use all available water.

Roughly 300 gallons per day.

Water Use Today | WaterSense | US EPA

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Old 13-08-2014, 05:54   #27
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Monte...buy one of those black 5 gallon camp showers that you hang up. We, like you shower off the transom and those black bags are perfect. On a sunny day laid out you will have warm water in a couple of hours.
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:55   #28
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Why in the world does one wash down a boat with fresh water when at sea?
That's the one that got me reading this thread. WTF?

As for showering - in the tropics, I'm quite happy with a salt water wash over the stern and a small fresh rinse. Not so with a lot of the ladies.
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Old 13-08-2014, 07:21   #29
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

as a lady at sea--i use so little water as to be shameful to my gender....rodlmffao....i make my 49 plus 49 gallons last a long time(more than 3 months, just under 6 months). and i will NEVER wash my boat with fresh water on topsides at sea good grief. fresh water is sooo bad for my topsides, which are wood.
5 gallons is a luxury shower. even with long hair to wash .
laundry and hair at sea get washed in salt then dried with towel then rinsed with fresh, less than 1 liter, then dried with fresh towel.
i will wash needed items in sea water then partially dry before rinsing in small amount of fresh water--- but then i dotn have a palacial condo on the water, which is as i see catamarans.
each of us has a different water usage need.
i figger, if ye start before you go to sea with water conservation, then the result at sea will be hopefully not to deplete all water reserves before creating new. equipment breaks and the result of watermaker fail could well be mutiny. (as the least obnoxious result..worst is dehydration and ill health)
practice before you leave and dream up a back up plan in the case of fail.
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Old 13-08-2014, 08:23   #30
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Re: How Much Water Will My Liveaboard Family Use?

The last time I was at sea, which is today... I looked around and low and behold... I was surrounded by salt water hundreds of feet deep as far as my eye could see. Why in the world would I feel the need or desire to conserve water if I have the ability the generate as much as needed via a water maker? If I lived in a desert, things would be different I suppose.
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