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Old 17-05-2013, 07:55   #1
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pirate Hobos Afloat

The video/posts of the Homeless in the Florida Keys guy posted in the last couple of days was fun to see especially noting he's been there 30 years! The comments seemed mostly positive. And some municipality has also made note and I presume is trying to get him to move. My guess is the videos are meant to be seeds for an upcoming public response of support, unless I missed the point.

As friendly and harmless as his lifestyle seemed, this is how the anchor wars got started in Miami and Key West. There were many more folks aboard in Miami and Key West, of course, hundreds really, and we see the result now in mooring fields and legislation and water cops and dye packs.

I lived in the anchorage off Dinner Key, Miami, for years and years. Many of us were liveaboards with jobs ashore, and decent boats. Many more, in my memory were folks living like this. With one isolated old fart, it's quaint. With hundreds, it's a public health issue.

I noted that he mentioned hauling trash and sewage ashore and water back. I'll take him at his word about sewage but I know from experience that most will not make that effort. He called himself a hobo but "hobos wander" to quote Wickipedia.

Current Florida law seems to be if the boat moves around a bit, no problem. This seems very reasonable to me as a way to ease the "problem" of liveaboards on derelicts.

2 cents adjusted for inflation.
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Old 17-05-2013, 08:03   #2
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

True... the odd one here and there... no sweat... but once the flock settle bang goes another anchorage... no room and sooner or later a marina pops up and anchoring's banned..
Save the good anchorages for visiting.. not making into a home
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Old 17-05-2013, 08:35   #3
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I have written this before, but we don't close down public parks because some homeless people sleep on park benches. Unfortunately, some have used "problem" boats as an excuse to ban all anchored boats, or to put in a mooring field that eliminates most of the anchoring area. Most of the "problem" boats are not owned by what I would call boaters. They are folks with other issues in many cases, who most likely would be living in poor circumstances ashore if they weren't on a boat. Florida's Fish and Wildlife folks have a well-developed and logical protocol for identifying and dealing with vessels that are illegal, unsafe, or both. In almost all cases the "problem" liveaboards are violating one or more existing laws: sewage, anchor lights, registration, etc.
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Old 17-05-2013, 08:49   #4
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I'd rather, live and let live. So long as the anchored stay anchored and don't drift down on me or my neighbor.
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Old 17-05-2013, 09:13   #5
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Re: Hobos Afloat

what is the big worry about hobos and homeless afloat--they are here as well as on land and will increase in numbers as economy suffers these miserable days and more.
there but for fortune go you and i ..... and yes, i been there done that homeless thing while under paid and not ever receiving the court ordered support my derelict dad ex didnt evahh pay..lol

SO...... judge not lest thee be judged. remember this too can happen to you....isnt something expected nor desired..loss if income happens even to those working in exec positions in corporate amerikuh.....

my boatwright has been a homeless derelict bum for over 30 yrs successfully. is clean and not sober often, but is when he is working on my boat and others...
imagine being overly intelligent and having nothing to really do while residing in pair a dice on your own boat. ...... can get boring, so many do actually cause an increase in their pocket change without thievery.
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Old 17-05-2013, 09:15   #6
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I like the "live and let live" thought as well, but then I also like to have the opportunity to have anchorages available and not packed with poorly anchored derelict vessels. As a Florida liveaboard for more than forty years, I've seen some changes that I favor. I have experienced dragging hulks, with people using them for low income housing, crashing into me at night. I remember attempting to fend off one with a boat hook and having my pole pass through the rotten wood of the hull. The "owner" of this wreck had been tied with a piece of polyolefin to his former home that was now a sunken hazzard. ....no registration, no anchor light, no holding tank and no responsibility for the damage or the debris left in the anchorage. I agree with Kettlewell and the "protocals" of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission.
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Old 17-05-2013, 10:05   #7
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Re: Hobos Afloat

These are the "commons" that mater. People having trouble with their gadgets should get the picture.
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Old 17-05-2013, 14:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
... People having trouble with their gadgets should get the picture.
What pray tell does this mean?
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Old 17-05-2013, 14:51   #9
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

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... In almost all cases the "problem" liveaboards are violating one or more existing laws: sewage, anchor lights, registration, etc.
This guy seems cool but he's the problem, unfortunately, on all three counts. We used to able to come and go with no problems. No more.
He could have set himself up as an actual cruiser, and maybe still can, but live and let live has come and gone in Murica.

Tell me what benefit he trades for his personal independence. Does he vote? Pay taxes? Pay registration? Pay for trash and sewage disposal? Water is all piped in to the Keys. Can't be cheap. He offers nothing in return that I can see.

He's getting social security I'd guess. But he hasn't been getting it for 30 years. I'm sorry all you bleeding hearts might be upset but I've known far too many "boaters" like this guy. I know half a dozen right this instant, four of whom are drawing "disability" from the govt. while living in the anchorage for nothing. I call BS.
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Old 17-05-2013, 15:48   #10
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Tell me what benefit he trades for his personal independence. Does he vote? Pay taxes? Pay registration? Pay for trash and sewage disposal? Water is all piped in to the Keys. Can't be cheap. He offers nothing in return that I can see.

He's getting social security I'd guess. But he hasn't been getting it for 30 years. I'm sorry all you bleeding hearts might be upset but I've known far too many "boaters" like this guy. I know half a dozen right this instant, four of whom are drawing "disability" from the govt. while living in the anchorage for nothing. I call BS.
Gee BC whats wrong about anchoring for free. I know many that do that my self included. Compared to those living in homes I pay very little in taxes and have no utilities. I do pay taxes. Just not very much..

But then again I live on less in a year then what most live on for a month. Really even those 30 odd years when I was working, my net contribution to the world economy was not all that much.

Oh water and trash I take care of at marinas when I spend a night. All covered in the slip rent for the day.. Besides remove the bum from the boat and now hes on land sleeping on the streets.

Really its not a crime to live at anchor. OK some folks may not improve the property values all that much, but that applies to many people on land too.
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Old 17-05-2013, 16:06   #11
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Re: Hobos Afloat

Poor people only look good in holiday photos........
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Old 17-05-2013, 16:15   #12
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Re: Hobos Afloat

There is nothing wrong with anchoring out for free, but it can become a problem when people turn something floating into a flop house that reflects badly on all boaters and can become a danger to themselves and others. So, if someone maintains their boat enough so it stays seaworthy, is legally registered, and operates within the law, I don't care how much money or lack thereof they have. But, when they are breaking numerous laws and commonsense, and their boats are sinking, catching on fire, or breaking free all the time, it can ruin the common. The really sad thing is existing rules and laws can handle the situation, but some with other agendas use a very few problem boats (there aren't many) as an excuse to try and chase away all anchored boats, or as an excuse to try to force everyone to pay to use the common, which is owned by all.
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Old 17-05-2013, 16:49   #13
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
There is nothing wrong with anchoring out for free, but it can become a problem when people turn something floating into a flop house that reflects badly on all boaters and can become a danger to themselves and others. So, if someone maintains their boat enough so it stays seaworthy, is legally registered, and operates within the law, I don't care how much money or lack thereof they have. But, when they are breaking numerous laws and commonsense, and their boats are sinking, catching on fire, or breaking free all the time, it can ruin the common. The really sad thing is existing rules and laws can handle the situation, but some with other agendas use a very few problem boats (there aren't many) as an excuse to try and chase away all anchored boats, or as an excuse to try to force everyone to pay to use the common, which is owned by all.
Seems the problem is not only with anchor outs. There are a multitude of boats in marinas everywhere which are barely afloat, are a fire hazard and in less then Bristol fashion. Gee not to mention poor housing everywhere.

The condo folks in Richmond California next to Marina Bay, were always complaining about the boats in the marina and the fact that "Gasp" there were people living there. They would have been very happy if all those nasty liveaboard people were kicked out.

Mind you, like the anchor outs, most of the liveaboard boats were seaworthy and not junky. But the perception was there was poor folks (be it doctors, lawyers, police or engineers) living on boats in front of their expensive condo.

The problem in Florida and places everywhere, is you have pretty wealthy folks on land, looking at boats and people living on bosts on the water blocking their perfect view. To Ken and Bab's in their Mc Mansion, even a late model Hunter or Shannon looks pretty shabby. Controlling the boat bums will not really stop that.

I do get what your saying. But even if all the boats anchored out at key west for example were all 5 year old or newer, Ken and Bab's and their like, would still be raising a fuss to get those boats out of the water.
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Old 17-05-2013, 17:27   #14
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Re: Hobos Afloat

Ahh folks, Yall have to remember some folks PREFER to anchor out rather then use marinas ! We fall into that bunch ourselfs. Now we are not broke hobos, and our boat looks great to us ! It's clean and has fair paint ! Our income is plenty enough for us to live in marinas if we wished to do so ! BUT we don't wish to !! If theres a ancorage available for use, we will use it ! and I don't care what the folks ashore like or don't like ! I have had a few run in's with so called water police in the FLA area, on weather or not it was legal to anchor where we were ! and after showing them the charts, which showed we were in the right place, they used the excuse that the homeowners did not like us being there !We stayed there a couple of days more then we had planned, just to be mean ! LOL Sometimes haveing paper charts are an advantage, as my older ones show ancorages, and even the water cops can't do much about that !!! I will NEVER get rid of my old charts !!! Just my 2 cents
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Old 17-05-2013, 17:56   #15
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

Well, I expected some flak. As noted, there's nothing wrong with anchoring for free. I prefer it. I can't stand the closeness of marina living and don't mind the dinghy commute, especially now that I don't have to be anywhere on time.

Your example of Ken and Babs was a good one, SC. I wonder if they'd have called in if what they saw was an endless ever-changing scene of well-maintained traveling cruisers? Well, we'll never know now that the derelicts have pooped in the punch bowl. And maybe Ken would have complained anyway, people being the way they are.

My thought was just that the guy's not a hero nor HD Thoreau. He gets himself an outboard and moves every week or so, no problem. He's had a good run but few ride for free for long.


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