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Old 19-05-2013, 17:17   #121
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Oh I'm having a delightful day, sunny and warm. Lovely day at anchor. Even the cat is happy. Just like to stir the pot a bit now and then. Without cable or TV, a girl has to have some hobby..

Oh agree that the government has about a million other things to worry about then a few bums on floating potential fix er uppers. Though with the recession from the last few years and the one starting, odds are we'll be up to our eye teeth with homeless or as I like to say; "the previously homed".
Heh!

Another new politically correct term. (Three words instead of just one - TPH)

Thanks.
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:36   #122
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

I doubt SC would tolerate a dull knife ... er ... one previously honed.
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:43   #123
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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I guess that I haven't been clear. I'm aware of poverty, but I'm also aware that shanty and temporary constructions are more regulated ashore than on the water. Where you are in Seattle, will you find a person building a hut to live in on the Woodland Park Lawn and Bowling Greens?
Isn't this because it is not permitted?



No, it's because Woodland Park, like many other city parks, is already full of structures built for picnicking. The homeless just use them instead. There are lots of them there, and in pretty much every other sizeable park around here. Pitching tents is fairly common everywhere. Lots of people living in cars, vans, and buses use parks for the parking and restrooms too. Same problem really. Sewage disposal, water, crime. Some asshat living in his van recently dumped his Porta potty in our parking lot at the boatyard. Super lame! I expect to see more of that, the number of people living in vehicles around here has been climbing steadily for quite some time now. Makes dumping a tank overboard seem tame doesn't it?
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:49   #124
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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I doubt SC would tolerate a dull knife ... er ... one previously honed.

Actually wouldn't it be "previously sharpened". Which oddly enough is how I feel some days...
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:04   #125
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Actually wouldn't it be "previously sharpened". Which oddly enough is how I feel some days...
Like a pencil that was wrote hard and put away whet?
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:08   #126
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If a person chooses to retire early at 50.
Should they be considered a Bum?
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:48   #127
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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No, it's because Woodland Park, like many other city parks, is already full of structures built for picnicking. The homeless just use them instead. There are lots of them there, and in pretty much every other sizeable park around here. Pitching tents is fairly common everywhere. Lots of people living in cars, vans, and buses use parks for the parking and restrooms too. Same problem really. Sewage disposal, water, crime. Some asshat living in his van recently dumped his Porta potty in our parking lot at the boatyard. Super lame! I expect to see more of that, the number of people living in vehicles around here has been climbing steadily for quite some time now. Makes dumping a tank overboard seem tame doesn't it?
Maybe I am less aware of the homeless ashore compared to those living on floundering wrecks. Afterall, I spend almost all of my nights on the water. I have not been to Seattle for years, but I am now in the middle of a road trip from San Francisco to Eureka and back. I have noticed far more homeless people than I am accustomed to in the Southeast US and I have not seen the open greens of the public parks in my home area used by the homeless for housing at all, while I see them in the water. Maybe they come into the parks here after dark and leave in the early morning, but they are on the water fulltime. There is that good poin made above that mentions that the landbound homeless are not careening into others houses an damaging them. I don't intend to complain too loudly about the derelicts afloat. I'm still anchoring freely and safely in most all the places I choose without any limitations. 'mostly anchored out for the last 12 years of our many decades aboard.
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Old 19-05-2013, 20:48   #128
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Maybe I am less aware of the homeless ashore compared to those living on floundering wrecks. Afterall, I spend almost all of my nights on the water. I have not been to Seattle for years, but I am now in the middle of a road trip from San Francisco to Eureka and back. I have noticed far more homeless people than I am accustomed to in the Southeast US and I have not seen the open greens of the public parks in my home area used by the homeless for housing at all, while I see them in the water. Maybe they come into the parks here after dark and leave in the early morning, but they are on the water fulltime. There is that good poin made above that mentions that the landbound homeless are not careening into others houses an damaging them. I don't intend to complain too loudly about the derelicts afloat. I'm still anchoring freely and safely in most all the places I choose without any limitations. 'mostly anchored out for the last 12 years of our many decades aboard.



You should hear the local homeowners associations start to howl when a Tent City moves into the neighborhood and everyone's property value plummets for a couple of years until they find a way to get rid of them and make it some other neighborhoods problem.



As tent city struggles, Seattle has no easy answers on homeless | Local News | The Seattle Times


Tent City 3 is coming to Queen Anne | Queen Anne - seattlepi.com


Seattle’s tent cities are a local reflection of global slum housing crisis | Seattle Globalist


City Beat: Are Seattle's tent cities a model for Sacramento?
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Old 19-05-2013, 21:58   #129
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Re: Hobos Afloat

As far as judging people by appearance, "the old guy must be scamming the government" and all that, I really have to weigh in here.
I had a Porsche shop. I built and worked on cool cars, new and old. Often people would stop by just to see what I had in the shop. Maybe it was a raced out GT3RS, maybe an RSR, maybe a one-of-a-kind 914. Whatever. Obviously it was a waste of my time to stop working and talk to folks but I did it anyway because I like people.

One old guy stopped by several times. He was wasting my time and he looked a little like a bum. Drove an old VW Vanagon. Long stringy gray hair, gray beard, scruffyish clothes. I never blew him off even though he appeared to be a waste of time.
One day he drove in in his 356 Speedster. Perfect car and worth more than your house.
It turned out that he was the son of a super super famous movie star from the 40's and 50's who's name you would all recognize and that he had 6 very very nice Porsches. A couple of the cars were pretty famous, too. I ended up working on all of them.

Yeah, this old guy living on the boat in the video is probably just bumming off of the rest of us, a drain on society. You can tell by the way he looks, right?
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Old 19-05-2013, 22:30   #130
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about. The guy in the video seems a pretty nice sort. Sure he's got a tarp and a whole bunch O stuff on deck, but really I would not call him a bum at all. He's 70 so probably living on SS or a small pension.

The inside of his boat does not look that bad at all. Much better then many I've seen.

He might be slightly eccentric, but lord knows there are a few of us in that category. Sort of looks like a retired collage professor to me.
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Old 19-05-2013, 22:38   #131
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There are a handful of shitty boats lying to anchors outside Marina Del Rey in Ca. These are people living on a small boat anchored in the open ocean, with only an oblique angle to the MDR breakwater to soften the waves once I'm a while. Their boats are constantly pitching on the ocean swell rolling into shore. When it is real bad they duck inside MDR and tie up to a local park til it blows over and they get kicked out. I am sure they all have issues and are social misfits. But I think living like that takes an amount of courage that not a lot of us have. I don't mind if a bit of my taxes go to support people like that. It can't be much and DC fatcats living high on the hog seems like a much bigger waste to me.
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Old 20-05-2013, 02:58   #132
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One thing I really liked about Mexico is the lack of government/rules. It might be too far on the lack-of side, but the USA has become WAY too far on the non-lack-of side.
Agreed. I'm from Southern California which tends to be the worst with rule addiction.

But sitting here in La Paz, it's a bummer noticing that 1/3 of the boats are abandoned derelicts and that's not even getting into random unknown things with floats. Not fishing stuff, just some ******* who left his danforth and 100' of line for everyone else to foul on.

You also don't have boats in the States fouling on long line floats or randomly ending up trapped in a marina because no one is paying for a dredger. Not even going to get into trash on the beaches.

I hate following the rules, but most of them are worth it.
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Old 20-05-2013, 05:55   #133
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Ok all,
Too much going on here to not chime in. My take is that this was originally about folks who aren't cruisers or even sailors specifically, who happen to live on sailboats at anchor. The discussion seems to have veered toward what makes one a "bum/hobo", and at which point they have paid sufficient dues to society to utilize public anchorages.
I didn't see the "veering". Also, I don't see this subject as "at what point has one 'earned' the right" but as "how much does one contribute Vs how much they take". From the very beginning of civilization has the topic been between the givers and the takers. But even for all this time has there been those in every village, every society those who are known to take without making much contribution. We used to term those people pilgrims. Pilgrimage or pillager? Most societies prided themselves in being extravagant hosts of those who could not return the favor.

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Yes, I fully understand that derelict boats are an issue. Same to the floating hulls that some camp on indefinitely, whether by choice or by circumstance. However, I see nothing wrong with someone who wants to live on the hook, on the margins of society, while still being responsible citizens of their country and our planet.
I have no truck with one who should choose to live on the margins of society. The problem comes not where they take more than they give but where they have little regard for those who host them. High concentrations of E Coli have made many waters uninhabitable. For the record I barely give a rip about the EPA, et al. To me it's all about common sense and personal responsibility. I don't need more govt to show me the way.

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I feel like some posters here would consider me a "hobo" or similar. I served in the US military and received an honourable discharge after completing my contract. At that point, being single and without financial obligation, I didn't feel like buying into the American Dream. Housing is so outrageously priced here in the SF bay area that many working class folk throw the vast majority of their money at rent.
Maybe some one but I wouldn't. You have served and I and many others give our utmost appreciation. You are a contributor. This subject is not about the transient but about the behavior of some transients, ie, those who suckle from society without any discernible developed skills yet becry the very hand that feeds...literally taking a dump on the front door step.

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I have an off grid place in the so-cal desert, on which I pay property taxes for no services whatsoever. I cut my own road. I truck in water. I could live out there in absolute comfort at minimum wage, paying less that 1 cent per gallon of water at the fill point and running my fridge, lights, and AC for free on solar. This doesn't work in the Bay.
My brother is in Victorville. I have a great 4x4 and roam the desert in search of abandoned airfields as well as searching for opals. I know a few people in DoD stuff...lol...if you're ever looking for work....

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I love the SF bay area, I grew up here, and many of my friends are here. However, it is near impossible to live economically. Studio apartments for 1k/month are a good deal. I pay $300 per month to keep my Triton in a berth in Sausalito, but living aboard wouldn't have the blessing of legitimacy. Would doing so anyways make me one of the untouchables? I pay taxes, (sales, income, and property), own over an acre, and have reliable, legal wheels. I'm also below the poverty line. I work hard to make a living. Why throw away $12,000 a year on rent? I'd rather spend it at west marine and on healthful food.
The story has been written...locals priced out of their area. Either barely hang on and hunker down or flee to better bushes, bigger berries. You have done the latter. What life is there to barely hang on to a meager existence clung to tradition? Being mobile is the new dawn. Oh, some make it work but they are like John Conner in a Terminator episode. Too much drama to suit me.

Ok, so you do have a liveaboard slip, that is an enviable position. Far from what you say, it has every bit of legitimacy. This is not solely about income, more accurately it is what you do with the income. I have met people of far less income than you (a priori your income) who are wildly able in achieving their goals and even to charitably contribute to society. Good God, stop comparing yourself to the Jones'. Beyond the facade they are unhappy. I drive an old truck, mechanically sound but with dents and bruises. Those dents remind me of every offroad sojourn but to the common city folk they are to say, here is a vehicle to give wide berth. I like having an 'invisible forcefield' around me as I drive amongst the psychos. I paid cash! I have no debt beyond monthly bills. I am more rich, more free than all those others.

Quote:
Am I a "bad guy" if I were to choose to be a sneakaboard at a marina? Would It be worse if I moved 300 yards from my slip, dropped an anchor, and cast my lots with the other folk who do so, saving $3600 a year?
As long as you don't take a dump in the water and you haul your own trash and you don't foul the waters with chemicals, forget what others may think or say.

Quote:
I'm interested in everyone's take on the matter, especially as it applies to the difference between someone who camps on a floating hull because it is better than the lee of a bridge vs. those who live aboard because they love the sea and can't afford to own and maintain a small vessel while paying obscene rent.

Cheers, and if you're around Sausalito let me know so I can get a cocktail ready.
-Christopher
Don't knock living under a bridge until you've tried it. I happened to live out of my truck for 4 months then again for 6 months while between jobs. Other than the 3 times someone called the sherf out of fear of me (?!) I loved the experience! I had daily interaction with a wide range of society. I even attended several weekly college classes and study groups in which not one suspected. No one suspected I was 'homeless' (I asked this of numerous persons) because I kept to a discipline of personal hygiene and health. That discipline makes the difference. It boils down to how functioning are you as a human being. Even if you are not able to contribute to society, how much do you take? And if you should take, how gracious are you in receiving? Each and every one of us has something to contribute if only for our good thoughts.
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Old 20-05-2013, 06:05   #134
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Re: Hobos Afloat

Richard5
Excellent post. 100 percent
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Old 20-05-2013, 06:07   #135
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Re: Hobos Afloat

[Mod hat on] Enough with the political comments guys... I spent the last 20 minutes editing![/mod hat]

I retired at 53. I paid into the "system" all my working life, and have no (taxable) income now.... Am I a "bum living off society"? I pay property tax on my homes, the marina where I moor charges me a hefty sum each month, I pay a pile of registration taxes for my toys.....maintenance, upkeep, insurance, more toys.... you get the picture; even though I pay no income tax, I still pay a pile of taxes!

Look at the guy moored out in the middle of nowhere in the FL Keys.... Registration taxes, fuel takes, bird food taxes, etc.... Lack of the need to pay an income tax or property tax does not equal a burden to society!
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