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Old 19-05-2013, 08:37   #91
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How much is "their share"? Who gets to determine that?
This is a good question. And I think THE question. How about someone born with a mental or physical disorder. One that prohibits them from ever working? Prohibits them from ever paying into the system? Do we judge their worth to society by the amount their parents paid to society?

Isn't there much more to life than money? That's something I was taught as a kid. Maybe it was my parents fault...
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:39   #92
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I'll take a shot: No if you've paid in your share previously. Yes if you've been living on the kindness of strangers.
Would your answers change if I told you that I'm 29 and my wife 22?
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:39   #93
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Now things have changed for 47% of US residents. The term "citizen" means nothing anymore. But every now and then doncha wonder where the money comes from?
Well, this I pretty much agree with
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:40   #94
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Re: Hobos Afloat

" We don't see people of little means constructing homes of plywood and old tires within the city parks. "




Sure we do, en masse in many places. Guess you've never seen a real shanty town. They are out there. It used to be we had "the projects", HUD housing for the poor. That has been defunded to uselessness. There are different flavors of shanty town everywhere. Here we have several roving "tent cities", which have been around for a long time now. We also have "Shed Town", this is a sizable village of people who have purchased cheap garden sheds to live in. Garden sheds are trending amongst the long term homeless right now. And that's in affluent Seattle. You need to hit the Deep South to find families living in cardboard boxes and the like, seen it all down there. Southern states have little to no assistance for the homeless.
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:45   #95
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Sure we do, en masse in many places. Guess you've never seen a real shanty town.
Or seen the leeward side of Oahu. True shanty towns, with gorgeous views.

People are just angry they have to spend all their money and go into massive debt to get the same view that some people get for free.
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:49   #96
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Hey... Buga orf...
can we have a little less intelligence...
stop trying to raise us to your level...
It is 1040 am and I have popped a beer in prep for the family get together at my house that will start in about 1 hour. Far as intelligence I feel I have a lot of extra brain cells that aren't being put to use and I should get something out of them, so they are now sacrificial (like a zinc).

I'm just white trash with money, so it you want to be on my level it is OK with me If you what to be higher level I clean up well given the correct motivation. But then sometimes when on the boat a while I don't shower for a few days (and some days I go commando and don't wear underwear because it makes it easier to scratch).
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:53   #97
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Would your answers change if I told you that I'm 29 and my wife 22?
It does on the face of it.

For me.

Depends on where your dough comes from (inherited, eg ... someone paid in along the way). This goes to the core of the issue as I'm sure you know. The landowners ashore are paying for the roads and fire protection, and the guard at the gate.

I don't think buying a lottery ticket really means folks are chipping in for the education costs.
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Old 19-05-2013, 08:53   #98
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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" We don't see people of little means constructing homes of plywood and old tires within the city parks. "




Sure we do, en masse in many places. Guess you've never seen a real shanty town. They are out there..................
I guess that I haven't been clear. I'm aware of poverty, but I'm also aware that shanty and temporary constructions are more regulated ashore than on the water. Where you are in Seattle, will you find a person building a hut to live in on the Woodland Park Lawn and Bowling Greens?
Isn't this because it is not permitted?
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Old 19-05-2013, 09:14   #99
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Ass, grass, or gas; nobody rides for free. That was then.
"Nothing's free in waterworld"
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Old 19-05-2013, 09:39   #100
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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"Nothing's free in waterworld"
Or anywhere else.

Here's my current fav. No one has apparently seen the owner in over 5 years. The owner knew something about anchoring tho. We're in hurricane alley. There are 19 vessels in the parking lot below which is not the main anchorage in town. Just 3 are current liveaboards. The 5 wrecks on the beach used to be occupied til blown ashore. The other 11 have been here for varying years gumming up the anchorage for the transients coming and going. I say with great certainty, all will eventually be blown ashore.

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Old 19-05-2013, 10:28   #101
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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You pay taxes and somehow that gives you the right to dictate what other people can or can't do? It gives us the right to have an opinion.

My wife and I have no taxable income. So does that make us a dredge on society? Yes, if you expect society to pay for your way of life and necessities, like food. Less right to live a life how and where we want? Don't expect to settle down in my back yard. I had to deal with squatters last year.

Wasn't there a time when ALL cruisers were happy to be on the fringe of "normal" society? Isn't that the damn point?No it isn't. self reliance and self sufficiency are our common threads. Nothing about bumhood
No taxable income, able bodied sailor no mention of disability.... Tax cheat or a sponge? Which shoe fits? Unless you're a state pensioner or receiving money from an annuity... pick the one that's most accurate. If you can get by on a level of income below the taxable lower threshold, I've go no problems with that... unless you expect to receive free stuff from public agencies.
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Old 19-05-2013, 10:45   #102
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Re: Hobos Afloat

Personally, I like the fact there are all sorts of folks on the water in many harbors--makes things more interesting and colorful. Some people seem to want to make harbors gated communities--the water is public, we all own it, rich or poor, big boat or little boat. If you don't like it there are numerous and luxurious marinas that will gladly accommodate you.

The last time I checked, the Declaration of Independence still begins:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
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Old 19-05-2013, 11:00   #103
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Nice to hear someone is living in the solution rather than ranting about the problem. I just heard that LA has a 2000% back-log to the Vets getting help. It's shameful, frankly. I guess as long as the administration uses the excuse of needed more money and getting it, there is no hurry to correct anything.
Not really. The House of Representatives has been underfunding just about everything. Don't blame the administration (i.e., the executive branch) who do NOT make the funding decisions. The Congress sends the guys to war and screws them when they return. Nasty bunch of evil doers.

Nice to hear someone is helping.
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Old 19-05-2013, 11:13   #104
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No taxable income, able bodied sailor no mention of disability.... Tax cheat or a sponge? Which shoe fits? Unless you're a state pensioner or receiving money from an annuity... pick the one that's most accurate. If you can get by on a level of income below the taxable lower threshold, I've go no problems with that... unless you expect to receive free stuff from public agencies.
Self reliance and self sufficiency ARE the fringe. Society and especially government do NOT want self reliant people. Ever. It's harder to make money off of them. Hence the homesteading movement gaining lots of traction in these economic times, again.

Do I have to mention a disability to be taken seriously when I tell you we have no taxable income? If so, then fine. Yes, my wife and I are BOTH disabled veterans.

Perhaps this mentality of "I pay income tax, I have a right to say as I wish" would be taken back a notch if you actually understand the tax code in America. Personal income tax pays for nothing more than the interest owed on printing money.
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Old 19-05-2013, 11:29   #105
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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So I'm hearing anti hobo and not in my back yard. Personally I don't think a hobo or bum makes me look bad any more then Bill Gates or the queen of England makes me look good. Though it might not hurt if I stood a little closer to the queen.

It seems in the US anyway there is no where for the homeless/ hobo / bum boater to go. Everyone says something needs to be done, but yet nothing is done and for most there is no where to go when your down and out. I see homeless out and about everywhere. Some camping under bridges or yes in boats that barely float.

Everyone says not in my back yard, but the reality is that there is no place or help for the vast majority of the homeless.

So any idea's on how to help these people raise themselves up. Oh I know, some are too far gone with drugs or drinking. But that can be said for many well to do too.

So should the bums and hobo's be banned from society, moved to a island away from view, put into group homes, tossed in jail or what.

People who have tried to "solve the homeless problem" on land have found that it's a complex problem without easy solution. On land, a shocking number of the homeless are ex-military with PTSD so severe that it has completely interfered with a normal life. And while we have "treatment," it doesn't always work. It sometimes involves drugs that the people have legitimate reasons for not wanting to take (large amounts of weight gain or just not feeling good in some way on the drug), but the "patients" are labeled "noncompliant." So now they look diffiuclt as well as dysfunctional. The problems go on and on.

It's not going to be any different on the water, but there has to be a way for these people to deal with their human (and pet, if they have them) waste. That's a minimum standard for a civilized society. This was part of the problem with the "homeless on a boat man" we had to deal with in Gulfport last summer. Boat ran severely aground in one tropical storm with another one on the way, and as the whole situation evolved it became apparent that he had no way to handle either his or his dog's waste.

Also, it turned out, he wasn't even a sailor. He owned the boat but had never sailed. Boat had no working motor and no sails (I think, no mast, but not sure about that). So he wasn't an acceptable live-aboard. We have two live-aboard boats that I know of out in Boca Ciega Bay right now with no working motors, but both have sails and owners who know how to sail them -- and who do. So they meet the state requirement and are never "hassled."
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