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Old 18-05-2013, 01:13   #46
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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I'd rather, live and let live. So long as the anchored stay anchored and don't drift down on me or my neighbor.
Be sure to include doing their bodily functions straight into the waters on a daily basis or having heaps of trash fouling you on the downwind/tide. Oh yes, don't forget those hapless cretins a few moorings away who always seem to watch you coming and going. How else would they know when to be "just passing by" in their leaky old scow to borrow yet another food item from you.

Morro Bay, CA used to have Sandal. He lived very freely on his anchor. He even raised a fine son. But he didn't pay for the privilege and that rankled a few in the moorings.

Morro Bay also had a different water-borne problem. Being the first safe port north of Pt Conception it became a sort of dumping grounds for those who perhaps had a life long dream to cast off the land and take up living aboard. Typically, these folks would get the crap scared out of them when coming around Conception for the 1st time and head for land at the 1st instance. This made for some great bargains on good boats as the owners wished to rid themselves of what had formerly been their dream but that is beside the point. Many of these boats sat the mooring fields and came into the "possession" of squatters or those who otherwise cut a deal with the absentee owners. A full holding tank, no electrical power, and no desire and/or lack of skill to charge the batts, the boats became an eyesore but more importantly a source of health code violations.

The city had to act, even the EPA was forcing action. Sadly, even Sandal, that kind and generous man, was sucked into the broadly written, strictly enforced regs. At least Sandal was able to pull anchor and move further into the back bay, out of city jurisdiction.

These days few remain. I am not impartial, I am glad some of those folks and most of the boats they occupied are gone yet there seems a travesty, a miscarriage of justice when the good people are included with the true troublesome folk simply because they share a commonality for the water.
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Old 18-05-2013, 01:24   #47
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Re: Hobos Afloat

Homelessness is directly attributable to a lack of affordable housing. Many homeless people receive government assistance. Why are they still homeless? Could it be that there are no places to rent that are even close to affordable on $800.00 a month? So some messed up people end up on boats as some end up on the streets and some in cars and RVs. If you had an income of $800.00 a month and there were rooms for rent for $100.00 a month, wouldn't anyone in their right minds rent one?
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Old 18-05-2013, 01:28   #48
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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A bit of soap and scrubbing will clean their boats. They're just to darned lazy.
In one form or another I have volunteered to work with the homeless for several yrs. You may be amazed that many can't seem to finish a thought to a conclusion. There are real health issues. I'm not talking of just the lack of dental care although there is that. I mean there is the lack of mental acumen which, either brought on by poor nutrition or a continued heightened state of anxiety, results in basically not know up from down. It's frightening, scary, and all to real. Any of these folks who went into the water as you imply best be closely watched for the first sign of trouble.
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Old 18-05-2013, 02:02   #49
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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This guy seems cool but he's the problem, unfortunately, on all three counts. We used to able to come and go with no problems. No more.
He could have set himself up as an actual cruiser, and maybe still can, but live and let live has come and gone in Murica.

Tell me what benefit he trades for his personal independence. Does he vote? Pay taxes? Pay registration? Pay for trash and sewage disposal? Water is all piped in to the Keys. Can't be cheap. He offers nothing in return that I can see.

He's getting social security I'd guess. But he hasn't been getting it for 30 years. I'm sorry all you bleeding hearts might be upset but I've known far too many "boaters" like this guy. I know half a dozen right this instant, four of whom are drawing "disability" from the govt. while living in the anchorage for nothing. I call BS.
You see, it could be any one of us and not too many steps away from where we are.
My wife was hurt badly at work, almost died, and ended up in a wheelchair. 3 days later I got layed off at work. We owned a home with big payments. We had 2 cars with payments. I had to figure out how to work from the house because my wife couldn't care for herself. She couldn't feed herself and she couldn't get to the bathroom herself. The worker's comp insurance company didn't pay for a single prescription for 2 1/2 years. I had to pay $2000.00 a month for them out of pocket and didn't get reimbursed for 3 years in spite of the judge's orders. What do you suppose that did to our savings?
Well, it wiped them out pretty quickly. We were on the verge of homelessness and through no fault of our own. The only mistake we made was her going to work that day.
This could have been you. It could have been any one of you. Can you honestly say that you could start making $75000.00 a year from your house starting in a few days from now? While you managed school duties for the kid and all the shopping and cooking and cleaning and Dr's appointments and book keeping and bill paying while your spouse layed in bed?
On simple, momentary twist of fate put me in that position. It could happen to you. How would you react? would you stay there and do the right thing or would you do like most, abandon your family and drink enough to kill the guilt?
We didn't end up homeless, not really, but we did end up living in a small RV for awhile after my wife's condition improved somewhat.
So really, where would you be today? Could you handle that and remain a productive member of society?
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Old 18-05-2013, 02:07   #50
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Re: Hobos Afloat

BTW, that was right after my disabled kid's 25 surgeries in 10 years. That's a whole nother story.
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Old 18-05-2013, 04:01   #51
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Homelessness is directly attributable to a lack of affordable housing. Many homeless people receive government assistance. Why are they still homeless? Could it be that there are no places to rent that are even close to affordable on $800.00 a month? So some messed up people end up on boats as some end up on the streets and some in cars and RVs. If you had an income of $800.00 a month and there were rooms for rent for $100.00 a month, wouldn't anyone in their right minds rent one?
With all respect, your 1st sentence is insensible. The answer to your 3rd sentence is found in your 2nd sentence. Drawing upon my experience with the homeless, I and others are so often abashed by the apparent disregard of industry and even thrift among those able bodied who constitute a majority of the homeless. A hand up has become a hand out. While that is a platitude it aptly describes why there remains a burgeoning homeless population.

With respect to your question of affordable housing, it is not the purpose of the free market to provide for social equality. However, most every successful person I have met has been very generous with their wealth and that includes providing time and money to charity.

The war vet as homeless is largely a myth. The class of hobo is largely occupied by those who consider sloth as a virtue.

I would like to address your last question. The state of being homeless invokes a certain ideal of freedom even though it may be false. One is not answerable to anyone, they are unaccountable and find that status to be preferable. There are some great success stories from those who had experienced being homeless but that success begins with personal initiative. Govt handout, er, assistance begats a motivation to avoid that initiative. It is the goal-oriented who bring themselves out of that predicament of being homeless and it is rare.

Much can be said of the reason why it is rare is because of "normalcy bias" which leads to the "well padded rut" in which one, while in a rut, finds they have made it comfortable enough. The bias however leads to a sense of hopelessness for a betterment of the future. It is a perception of the wind taken out of the sails. Why bother? becomes the mantra and increasingly so.

Then there is peer pressure. Oh yes, even among adults there is the bias towards keeping that circle of friends, that social system and the status therein. To succeed out of that state of homelessness is to lose that status. I think of it like when a single person becomes married so they spend ever less time with their single friends. But the homeless often suffers from the influence of others who, perhaps unconsciously, seek to perpetuate the status. Most homeless also suffer from poor nutrition which does lead to a multitude of poor decisions.

Ask any volunteer involved with the homeless what one best thing would help the actual homeless person. I would not one bit be surprised if they said it would be to get govt out of handouts. I have met some very intelligent long-term homeless persons. But among the whole class there remains that sense of pride where the individual places a high value on accomplishment even if it only should remain a far off dream. In other words, while they will gladly, thankfully accept assistance they wish to be the primary person involved in their success. When others insist upon doing everything to help the poor, the poor will resent that. This opens the door to certain passive/aggressive behaviors which are detrimental to all but especially to them who hold to that last tendril of self-respect that they feel they win even while they lose.
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Old 18-05-2013, 05:00   #52
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

Hmmm.... I am confused...
I don't own/rent a home.. my boats a heap of un-liveable crap..
However I have several places I can knock on the door and stay as long as I want...
I pay heavy taxes on tobacco, alcohol, clothes and food I buy... don't make enough a year to meet a tax threshold...
Am I a 'Bum'..... guess I am...
Oh.. Oh... I nearly forgot... got bailed out by CF members coz I never saved up in my early years...
Funny how 'Freedom of the Sea's' and perceptions change when certain boats come into the anchorage...
PS; Have claimed nothing from a State in 25yrs
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Old 18-05-2013, 05:40   #53
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I like people who try to live alternate, but independent lifestyles.
Yet they always seem to inspire more social criticism than is deserved, I guess simply because they somehow threaten the norm.
Is being a Drifter or a Hobo a bad thing, if they have learned to calculate their own Set and Rate?
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Old 18-05-2013, 05:50   #54
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I don't understand bum/hobo worship, or rather bum lifestyle envy that seems to infect so many who one would think would normally champion environment issues.

If I'm caught discharging my vessel in a "pristine aquatic environment," I'm an evil person that must be stopped and punished according to these worshipers. By contrast, the holy bums must be allowed to freely do the same without consequences. Complete hypocracy.
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:08   #55
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

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I don't understand bum/hobo worship, or rather bum lifestyle envy that seems to infect so many who one would think would normally champion environment issues.

If I'm caught discharging my vessel in a "pristine aquatic environment," I'm an evil person that must be stopped and punished according to these worshipers. By contrast, the holy bums must be allowed to freely do the same without consequences. Complete hypocracy.
Sneaking respect is a common thing... believe me I have every respect for the stand-up guy who did the get a job, buy a house, be a 'pillar' and work till 65...
Honestly wish I could have had the fortitude some times...
And the folk I sometimes envy... damned if they don't envy me...
But dumping crap over the side in inappropriate places is not 'Class Exclusive'.... should attend a 'Young Conservatives' do some time...
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:27   #56
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I speak from personal experience. My life as a Vet after returning from three tours of duty in Vietnam has been one of ups and downs. I worked at many different jobs, rigger, machinist, mechanical inspector, photographer, Ironworker, and photojournalist. Before the service I was a commercial fisherman with my own 85 ft. dragger. I spent a lot of time living by myself and as I hit my fifties started having problems physically that would not allow my to do a lot of jobs.
After the market crash in 2008 I lost all my clients as a freelance photojournalist and could no longer afford to pay rent, etc.. I had a small 25ft. Rhodes Meridian and moved on board, sailed up and down the east coast for a couple of years until the boat ended needing more in repairs than I could afford so I sold it and lived in shelters for a while.
It took six months to find a job. It was not that great a paying job $12.00/hr. as a historical actor but living in Key West my room with a mattress and box spring on the floor was $850/month. Before the room I lived on a 31 foot Irwin owned by someone else in that somewhat dreaded community behind what is called Christmas tree Island. Many of the people living out there worked daily jobs ashore as bartenders and waiters and there income would not afford housing. There were those who did drugs and stole anchored out also but they were the minority. There were people who owned several derelict boats that rented the boats out for three-hundred to five-hundred a month.
When someone new came into town and found a job they would often rent these boats as a place to crash at night so they could save some money. The FWC would come around inspect the craft and ticket the individual renting and bother with the owner until the boat was tagged as derelict. Many times the boats were not registered and the state or what part of the government had to pay for removal of the vessel.
So, as I see it there is a multi-layered problem: Low wage jobs that do not provide suffient income. People abusing the system and not registering boats while renting them, homeless people who use drugs that can not use the home shelters etc. because they refuse to give up their habit, and people who have a mental problem that does not allow them to live in land based communities.
It seems when the country had jobs that were manually orientated that the problem of homelessness and the poorer people were less of a burden on society. Anyone who has studied Sociology should know the theorem "society creates the problems it deserves."
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:34   #57
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I personally am not in the least worried about someone on a boat discharging his waste once in awhile--you might be surprised, by the way, about how many actually do have functioning and legal toilets onboard. I have been in luxury marinas where in the middle of the night you are floating in a sea of sewage due to some large yacht emptying its tanks. And, very often that sewage that you so carefully pump out goes into an inadequate treatment system that then dumps the stuff right back into the anchorage. In many places sewage from land coming from thousands of people is still quietly dumped straight into the harbor with no treatment whatsoever. The guy living cheaply on a boat is not a measureable source of pollution. Read about what Canada does with its sewage.
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:44   #58
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Coupla comments: To Minaret, it's great to hear what you're doing. "Each one, teach one." Nothing I've said is related to homeless Vets. I've heard of the huge backlog -- 9 years, I believe. My own experience with the VA has been uniformly (heh heh) positive. I imagine there are vets caught in the derelict boat reduction net but I've tried to focus on the video hobo, Homeless in the Florida Keys.

To ssw914: An inspiring story, sir. Good on ya. And you're out cruising! As a personal aside, I don't think one can drink enough to kill the guilt. It's always there when you wake up. Blessedly, one day you don't.

Boaty, I think your willingness and ability to find work takes you out of the down and out picture. My own little stash went away in a market adjustment years ago, about the same time the crumbling economy got my real job. Truth be told, tho, I was always faking it when I seemed prosperous. The guy anchored way the hell out of the social group, and perhaps eating an out-of-season winter crab because it's dinner time, is the real me.

Only the good die young, I heard.
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:48   #59
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Re: Hobos Afloat

i have done my part, so far, in helping us vets without shelter find some shelter--i was given a columbia 22 in 1998 with an ob engine, and i turned it over to a homeless vet in sd for 800 usd--he paid, as he did have vets assistance and some tiny retirement, but not enough money or income to accomplish acquisition of shelter of an approved nature.

i have also found from personal experience that the worst folks to have to turn my back on have been the low bux cruisers--one stole my charts in mazatlan..niuce guy, upstanding citizen--NOT....
however, those are thank gods in the minority.

you folks with judgementalisation problems need to realize that 914 has it down...you never know what is going to happen in your life. make all the noise you want about how bad and horrible these souls are --- then wake up in their shoes. never fails.. has YOUR company done its downsizing yet?? the next unfortunate souls could well be YOU.....

nothing we do has a guarantee--i have found many homeless souls who were executives and at age 55 found they were no longer useful to their corporate entity and rendered homeless as there is no work for these ousted souls. watch who you badmouth.
it will come back to you.

as our financial market continues to tank, we will have much more of this...and the new homeless folks could be YOU......there is not notice of these down turns---just happen. have a good life, and in your glass houses, you should not throw stones--could well make a problem in your ohsoperfect lives.

you guy s should really speak with these souls you so down-mouth..i had to as i worked in health care delivery for soooo long---i found many of the homeless i saw were YOU guys with corporate woes--downsized out of work. so i have to belly laugh when you all decide to verbally heavily crap on homeless souls..

i only wish i had been able to do more for them in the way of gaining shelter.
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Old 18-05-2013, 06:50   #60
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

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Only the good die young, I heard.
"Praise Be....!! coz ahhs a Sinner..."
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