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Old 20-05-2013, 08:28   #151
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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But you are balanced out by people like me who would prefer a mooring field and welcome the amenities that come with it. Mooring fields are safer than anchoring out.
However, the moorings prevent anchoring 24/7 year 'round, and my understanding is that they are more than half empty in the summer. In any case, you are right, different strokes, so I say balance the use--some moorings, some anchoring area. The way they did it in Marathon and Ft. Myers Beach was to pave over 95% of the good anchoring area with moorings, so there is very little left over if you prefer to anchor. Moorings are only "safer than anchoring out" when properly built, sized, serviced, etc. Many moorings are far inferior to anchoring gear in terms of holding power. But, even assuming the mooring is of hurricane strength, you have no idea when you pick one up when the last time it was inspected, or whether or not an oversized boat just overstressed the line and chain in a big storm, or if under the water the shackle has rotted out. Mooring field owners often make you sign a complete waiver of all liability if something goes wrong--check with your insurance company about that. BoatUS has issued warnings not to sign such waivers, or your insurance may be invalidated too.
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Old 20-05-2013, 08:34   #152
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
.Yes i EARNED my right to become disabled and receive that which i have been thoroughly taxed for..

i believe the true issue is jealousy of someone having a free life without the crap allegedly normal souls have to tolerate....
An interesting response. All I posted earlier was that my wife and I both work very hard at age 56, (my wife as a nurse and myself in construction and music), we're been down and out twice in our lifetime, and that we don't collect nor do we expect any free stuff from others or the government.

I really don't understand your concept: "the right to become disabled or the right to a free life?" The constitution is all about freedom and liberty.... not free stuff and entitlements.
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:01   #153
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
I think the issue is not the water space, but the infrastructure one uses ashore? If one pays dinghy dockage and pays for his water and garbage disposal, that's fine. If one ties up behind a grocery store in a mangrove creek, sticks there garbage is the launch ramp cans, takes water from public taps, that's the issue.
Forgive me but I think that is trite. Such a person may be viewed as being a parasite but how low will you go, how fine will you cut the line? After all, the man secures his vessel and hauls his own trash. What is it to other liveaboards if he takes draft from the public tap? Does "public" now mean "for the few"?

My van had a flat tire at a liveaboard marina. It sat there for 5 months while I was at sea. Some of the liveaboards called the cops to report an abandoned vehicle even though most in that small marina knew I was under way to somewhere else. Simply because I no longer had a boat in that marina they called the cops.... Blow me down but the judgement is on them. So I lost a vehicle but for that I knew I could no longer trust any of the lot. Real petty if you ask me.
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:09   #154
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Mooring field owners often make you sign a complete waiver of all liability if something goes wrong--check with your insurance company about that. BoatUS has issued warnings not to sign such waivers, or your insurance may be invalidated too.
I don't advocate casual use of attorneys but any lawyer worth his license could shoot holes in such a waiver. A shackle which parted due to improper maintenance by said owner which caused damage to your property would be easily proven. Too, I know nothing about BoatUS in this but I suspect they say that to protect themselves in such case. The law of the land in the USA has become protection from tort liability. Damn the lawyers, shoot the rest.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:07   #155
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
Drove an old VW Vanagon converted school bus. Long stringy gray hair, gray beard, scruffyish clothes. I never blew him off even though he appeared to be a waste of time.
That describes my best friend.

He dosn't dump his tank in the parking lot though.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:10   #156
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about. The guy in the video seems a pretty nice sort. Sure he's got a tarp and a whole bunch O stuff on deck, but really I would not call him a bum at all. He's 70 so probably living on SS or a small pension.

The inside of his boat does not look that bad at all. Much better then many I've seen.

He might be slightly eccentric, but lord knows there are a few of us in that category. Sort of looks like a retired collage professor to me.
He could be an axe murderer. Looks mean only so much.

He was an alcoholic sponge diver for 30+ years.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:14   #157
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by tbodine88 View Post
I'd rather, live and let live. So long as the anchored stay anchored and don't drift down on me or my neighbor.
Hi Bodine. I was wondering, would you mind giving me your home address? Do you have any kind of shed or treehouse or anything like that back there? If not, it's OK I can build one.

While I'm there, I won't be any bother to you. I'll just pee in the yard, and will beg off some food and a little money from your neighbors.

Live and let live, that's what we always say!
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:18   #158
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Richard5
Excellent post. 100 percent
Ditto.

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Old 20-05-2013, 11:19   #159
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
He could be an axe murderer. Looks mean only so much.

He was an alcoholic sponge diver for 30+ years.
It must be hard finding alcoholic sponges

Sounds like the guys been on the wagon for years.


Gee, I could be as axe murderer too, except I don't have an axe. Though my katana would work I'm guessing
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:23   #160
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
However, the moorings prevent anchoring 24/7 year 'round, and my understanding is that they are more than half empty in the summer. In any case, you are right, different strokes, so I say balance the use--some moorings, some anchoring area. The way they did it in Marathon and Ft. Myers Beach was to pave over 95% of the good anchoring area with moorings, so there is very little left over if you prefer to anchor. Moorings are only "safer than anchoring out" when properly built, sized, serviced, etc. Many moorings are far inferior to anchoring gear in terms of holding power. But, even assuming the mooring is of hurricane strength, you have no idea when you pick one up when the last time it was inspected, or whether or not an oversized boat just overstressed the line and chain in a big storm, or if under the water the shackle has rotted out. Mooring field owners often make you sign a complete waiver of all liability if something goes wrong--check with your insurance company about that. BoatUS has issued warnings not to sign such waivers, or your insurance may be invalidated too.

Everything in Florida is half empty in the summertime.

For myself, I never said that anchorages have to be of hurricane strength. I don't see how anyone could guarantee that. But I see boats get pitched all over Boca Ciega Bay in a lot less, and I know people who have been hit by those boats that broke loose in a lot less. The boat we moved to a mooring held through both Debby and isaac, and Miama was pounded for days by both storms. I've never heard of a mooring field having a lot of boats break free in a tropical storm. If you have a link to such a story, of course I'll look at it, but I don't think people can insist on both being right on top of a popular place and expecting to be able to be there at no charge. The mooring in Miami even included shuttle service out to your car and a place to park your car. For a city like Miami -- that's monumental. For a place like Marathon, that's huge.

I didn't see any such waiver at the only place I'm familiar with -- Dinner Key.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:24   #161
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
I don't advocate casual use of attorneys but any lawyer worth his license could shoot holes in such a waiver. A shackle which parted due to improper maintenance by said owner which caused damage to your property would be easily proven. Too, I know nothing about BoatUS in this but I suspect they say that to protect themselves in such case. The law of the land in the USA has become protection from tort liability. Damn the lawyers, shoot the rest.


That may well be, Richard, but the great majority of lawyers would charge for those services, and it wouldn't be cheap.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:29   #162
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
An interesting response. All I posted earlier was that my wife and I both work very hard at age 56, (my wife as a nurse and myself in construction and music), we're been down and out twice in our lifetime, and that we don't collect nor do we expect any free stuff from others or the government.

I really don't understand your concept: "the right to become disabled or the right to a free life?" The constitution is all about freedom and liberty.... not free stuff and entitlements.

She did "earn" her right to disability income. She contributed to the social security system, and that is part of the social security system, not "free stuff and entitlements."

I don't know what her disability is, but I know that while many critics don't know it, it's *hard* to be categorized as 100% disabled for that purpose, and that it IS how our laws read. She isn't "on the take." She doesn't have to explain to us why she is disabled, and it doesn't make her a bad person or a "user."

She's found a way to live happily in spite of all of this and I admire her for that. She comes in here and shares her knowledge and experience and shouldn't be called names.
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:42   #163
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

[QUOTE=Kenomac;1239815

I really don't understand your concept: "the right to become disabled or the right to a free life?" The constitution is all about freedom and liberty.... not free stuff and entitlements.[/QUOTE]

Actually the 'Free stuff and Entitlements' starts at the top and works its way down... the what you get in relation to your status in society is an inverted pyramid...
Take our Governments and civil servants for a start... ratio of rewards for production... 100/-0... then lets move to the financial sectors... more bums...
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:44   #164
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Actually the 'Free stuff and Entitlements' starts at the top and works its way down... the what you get in relation to your status in society is an inverted pyramid...
Take our Governments and civil servants for a start... ratio of rewards for production... 100/-0... then lets move to the financial sectors... more bums...

This started because ZeeHag did not explain her situation in a way acceptable to some here. I think this debate is inappropriate and off-topic, and CLEARLY is going to go someplace hurtful for someone here (if it hasn't already).

Moderators, is this on topic?
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Old 20-05-2013, 11:54   #165
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
This started because ZeeHag did not explain her situation in a way acceptable to some here. I think this debate is inappropriate and off-topic, and CLEARLY is going to go someplace hurtful for someone here (if it hasn't already).

Moderators, is this on topic?
I doubt if the self confessed 'Bums' are hurt by it...
however the 'Pillars' seem a tad sensitive..
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