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Old 12-09-2012, 06:55   #106
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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A wise choice I think. Don't feel too bad, sailnet talked me down from a 47 foot sailboat to a 30' one, thank goodness for that!

Re fuel consumption I've always heard it in gph rather than per mile, the 40 trawler(a real trawler converted to cruiser) burned 1.5 to 2gph at cruise... assuming 6 knots would be 12gph for a 40'er... seems a bit much unless running big old gasoline engines.

Good luck, I'm sure things will work out well.

FWIW, with twin 450-hp diesels, we burn about 1 GPH per engine (2 GPH total) at 800 RPMs and 6 KTS, about 2 GPH per engine (4 total) at 1000 RPMs and near 7.5 KTS, and closer to 3 GPH per engine (6 total) at 1200 RPMs and about 9 KTS.

Our boat is not optimised for running at slow speeds (our optimal cruise is 2200-2400 RPMs and 19-22 KTS), and our hull form especially is a factor in uncomfortable seas... but in the grand scheme of things, liesurely trips -- or even long-distance voyages -- at trawler speeds don't always have to break the bank. Especially with displacement and even semi-displacement hull forms and (sometimes single) engines optimized for much better economy than we can achieve on our boat.

-Chris
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:40   #107
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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FWIW, with twin 450-hp diesels, we burn about 1 GPH per engine (2 GPH total) at 800 RPMs and 6 KTS, about 2 GPH per engine (4 total) at 1000 RPMs and near 7.5 KTS, and closer to 3 GPH per engine (6 total) at 1200 RPMs and about 9 KTS.

Our boat is not optimised for running at slow speeds (our optimal cruise is 2200-2400 RPMs and 19-22 KTS....Chris
Very informative Chris, sounds like you've done some speed/economy trials.

But you didn't say what sort of fuel burn you experience at your 'optimal cruise speed' of 19-22knts 2200-2400 rpms?
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:26   #108
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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For a powerboat or sailboat, depth of keel and height over water are the two big issues. But a powerboat should be fine on the ICW in anything your considering. Anything with a 6 foot deep keel will be fine in most places in florida. Gets a little skinny at low tide in parts of georgia and the carolina's

BTW, there is no way your going to be able to dock a 50-60' boat by yourself, without any training. Think of docking a boat as sort of the same as parallel parking a large car in a tight spot on a inclined iced over road... without brakes.

That's pretty close to how it feels the first few times you dock a boat (even a smaller boat). The people on deck can't fend off a large boat by hand like can be done with smaller boats. It has to be finessed. Add a 10-15 mph cross breeze and its lots O fun.

I have docked 55' boats in a 15 knot cross wind BTW. It is not easy the first time and I had thousand's of dockings in smaller boats.

The insurance companies will probably not insure the boat if you don't have experience. So plan on hiring a captain for day trips and lots O hands on instruction. With that stipulation you should be able to get insurance.

One larger boat will be so much better then two smaller boats, btw.
I had to chuckle at the comparison of the car on ice. I live in New England and drive and Excursion, so I have had that feeling of sliding down hills plenty...LOL

Good advice about training. I wouldn't dream of trying to operate the thing without tons of training before hand until I am sure that I know what I'm doing. Even if it was a small boat I still wouldn't do it without training.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:51   #109
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

You are correct that normally its GPH. I thought it might be easier for someone without much of a marine background to understand fuel economy better in miles per gallon or gallons per mile.

Depending on hull type be it displacement, semi-displacement or whatever, and hull shape, they all effect fuel consumption.

Yes Some trawlers can get pretty good fuel economy, Some get 5-6 miles per gallon. so I hear. Though for the size the OP is needing, she'll be lucky to find a boat that will burn less then 10-15 GPH, Though some of the power cats do pretty well.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:25   #110
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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Good advice about training. I wouldn't dream of trying to operate the thing without tons of training before hand until I am sure that I know what I'm doing. Even if it was a small boat I still wouldn't do it without training.
Odds are with a 55' ish boat, you might be on an end tie (the dock at the end of a row of slips), which may be easier from a docking / undocking standpoint. Me, I would get a end tie where the dock was down wind to the prevailing winds. With a bow thruster it will be pretty easy leaving. getting back means just pulling up along side the dock a few feet off and let the wind push the boat to the dock.

Some slips have a finger pier on each side of the slip, but some marina's only have a finger pier on one side of a double wide slip with a pesky boat on the opposite side.

The fist time I docked a larger boat it was a Tayana 37 with a 6 foot bow sprint on front and dinghy davits on the back. So overall length was about 46'.

Plus there with a big anchor on the end of the bow sprint. That anchor just wanted to go towards that pesky boat in the adjacent slip. It missed but boy did the crowds gather the first few times I docked that boat.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:05   #111
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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...BTW, there is no way your going to be able to dock a 50-60' boat by yourself, without any training. Think of docking a boat as sort of the same as parallel parking a large car in a tight spot on a inclined iced over road... without brakes.
I'd have to disagree with your description here. In first place you should not be trying to 'parallel park' any boat. Generally you bring the bow in first, toss a spring line, and make use of a spring line (not bow line) to come further up to the dock.

Single engined boats (power or sail) are a lot tougher to master due to prop rotation direction compared to direction you wish to place the stern. BTW, never tie down the stern of a vessel until the very last line.

Catamarans and big powerboats with twin engines are the easist to master. They have twin props that are separated far apart. You can put one side in forward, and one side in reverse, thus spin the boat in its own length. In general this high manuerabilty will get you though lots of situations other than strong currents and higher breezes on your beam. that requires more practice.

You will be a little intimindated at first with a large boat in relatively small spaces, but with a little practice, and knowledge of how your particular vessel reacts, you become more comfortable in a short time.....particularly with a twin screw vessel.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:19   #112
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yeah, I explored that option tons, but the problem that I have is that I have 5 kids and 2 adults, so I would need probably a 90' boat. I wouldn't be able to easily operate that with no experience. It would be complicated with needing a captain and crew and all.

This would make a great liveboard vessel, but maybe just a bit too much boat for your beginning? ....5 staterooms though...

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:15   #113
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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I'd have to disagree with your description here. In first place you should not be trying to 'parallel park' any boat. Generally you bring the bow in first, toss a spring line, and make use of a spring line (not bow line) to come further up to the dock.

Single engined boats (power or sail) are a lot tougher to master due to prop rotation direction compared to direction you wish to place the stern. BTW, never tie down the stern of a vessel until the very last line.

Catamarans and big powerboats with twin engines are the easist to master. They have twin props that are separated far apart. You can put one side in forward, and one side in reverse, thus spin the boat in its own length. In general this high manuerabilty will get you though lots of situations other than strong currents and higher breezes on your beam. that requires more practice.

You will be a little intimindated at first with a large boat in relatively small spaces, but with a little practice, and knowledge of how your particular vessel reacts, you become more comfortable in a short time.....particularly with a twin screw vessel.
Well the Car on ice thing was just an analogy for someone who has not docked before. Though many a guest dock does require squeezing between two other boats on a side tie.

Agreed that two engine boats are much easier to dock and undock btw. But I have seen many a newbe crew docking 30-35 foot twin screw boat and it looks like they always have way too much fun the first six times or so.

You know, I've never used a spring line as the first line docking, though mainly because I single hand and dock to an upwind finger . But for crewed boats using a midship spring is a good method of docking.
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Old 12-09-2012, 14:55   #114
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

The American Sailing Association has lessons in most major cities. The first course I took was Basic Keelboat Sailing (ASA 101) and the instructor had us docking with a finger pier on each side in a Pearson 32. Doing that myself without instruction I thought would have been asking for trouble, but with an instructor, no problem for all of the students on board. Normally there are four students, but I lucked out and went with only one other student so we got a lot of attention. Here is what the first course covered: Basic Keelboat Sailing - ASA 101 - Certification by American Sailing Association I also took ASA 103 and will take 104. The ASA 102 course is not offered at most locations. I had to do some searching to find anything about it, Had something to do with Coastal Cruising, a bit on navigation, advanced sail trim, GPS and radio operation. Much of this was covered in the ASA 101 and 103 courses. True North Sailing School
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:25   #115
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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FWIW, with twin 450-hp diesels, we burn about 1 GPH per engine (2 GPH total) at 800 RPMs and 6 KTS, about 2 GPH per engine (4 total) at 1000 RPMs and near 7.5 KTS, and closer to 3 GPH per engine (6 total) at 1200 RPMs and about 9 KTS.

Our boat is not optimised for running at slow speeds (our optimal cruise is 2200-2400 RPMs and 19-22 KTS), and our hull form especially is a factor in uncomfortable seas... but in the grand scheme of things, liesurely trips -- or even long-distance voyages -- at trawler speeds don't always have to break the bank. Especially with displacement and even semi-displacement hull forms and (sometimes single) engines optimized for much better economy than we can achieve on our boat.

-Chris
Hey Chris,
I'm confused. Your boat is NOT a trawler, correct? The photo doesn't look like one. But.... it sounds like you get trawler fuel economy???
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:39   #116
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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Odds are with a 55' ish boat, you might be on an end tie (the dock at the end of a row of slips), which may be easier from a docking / undocking standpoint. Me, I would get a end tie where the dock was down wind to the prevailing winds. With a bow thruster it will be pretty easy leaving. getting back means just pulling up along side the dock a few feet off and let the wind push the boat to the dock.

Some slips have a finger pier on each side of the slip, but some marina's only have a finger pier on one side of a double wide slip with a pesky boat on the opposite side.

The fist time I docked a larger boat it was a Tayana 37 with a 6 foot bow sprint on front and dinghy davits on the back. So overall length was about 46'.

Plus there with a big anchor on the end of the bow sprint. That anchor just wanted to go towards that pesky boat in the adjacent slip. It missed but boy did the crowds gather the first few times I docked that boat.
I was actually wondering about that last night. Good chance that I may end up at an end tie, which would make it easier. Plus, when traveling I have no problem with mooring or anchoring until I really get the hang of docking well. Although I've heard that anchoring properly is an art into itself...
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:49   #117
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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Very informative Chris, sounds like you've done some speed/economy trials.

But you didn't say what sort of fuel burn you experience at your 'optimal cruise speed' of 19-22knts 2200-2400 rpms?
Heh... didn't mean to be stingy with info, was just focusing on the kind of boat GG might end up with. We burn ~13 GPH per engine (26 total) at a typical cruise 2200 RPMs and ~ 20 KTS.

"Optimal" in this case generally refers to ride comfort in various sea states, getting to destinations with a minimum of fuss, etc... but sacrifices the kind of fuel economy a trawler owner might experience.

We vary our trips usually based on ride comfort, 'cause we usually don't care whether we get anywhere quickly or not. But then sometimes, we just get on with it, get to where we're going, and chill.

-Chris
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:51   #118
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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The American Sailing Association has lessons in most major cities. The first course I took was Basic Keelboat Sailing (ASA 101) and the instructor had us docking with a finger pier on each side in a Pearson 32. Doing that myself without instruction I thought would have been asking for trouble, but with an instructor, no problem for all of the students on board. Normally there are four students, but I lucked out and went with only one other student so we got a lot of attention. Here is what the first course covered: Basic Keelboat Sailing - ASA 101 - Certification by American Sailing Association I also took ASA 103 and will take 104. The ASA 102 course is not offered at most locations. I had to do some searching to find anything about it, Had something to do with Coastal Cruising, a bit on navigation, advanced sail trim, GPS and radio operation. Much of this was covered in the ASA 101 and 103 courses. True North Sailing School
I had actually looked into those courses that you speak about with a few schools in my area. I had figured on taking them when I was planning on a Cat, but now that I will be getting a motorboat I wonder if anyone offers motor boat training courses?
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:53   #119
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

Check with US Power Squadrons. They might offer something. I've also found that just talking with other owners at the docks will provide you with a wealth of information.
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Old 13-09-2012, 10:54   #120
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Re: Has Anyone Ever had 2 Boats as Liveaboards???

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Heh... didn't mean to be stingy with info, was just focusing on the kind of boat GG might end up with. We burn ~13 GPH per engine (26 total) at a typical cruise 2200 RPMs and ~ 20 KTS.

"Optimal" in this case generally refers to ride comfort in various sea states, getting to destinations with a minimum of fuss, etc... but sacrifices the kind of fuel economy a trawler owner might experience.

We vary our trips usually based on ride comfort, 'cause we usually don't care whether we get anywhere quickly or not. But then sometimes, we just get on with it, get to where we're going, and chill.

-Chris
So....is it that when you travel slowly you get trawler type economy, but still have the option to go fast when you want, which a trawler would not allow. If that's the case, then why would folks get trawlers if motor yachts get the same economy at slower speeds...I'm so confused???
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