Harbor Nazis

[LakeSuperior]

I like the fact that the CG can detain, board, and then search my boat which is my second home. They can do this without probable cause under the guise of a safety inspection.

The CG will not let you schedule a safety inspection at a mutual agreeable time.

Freedom from unreasonable search was trampled in the courts because it is inconvenient to obtain a signed search warrant if the yacht is at sea.

I would respect and welcome the presence of the CG so much more if they would stop this nonsense.

In todays world the CG has access to swift boats, air support, and other means to track your vessel so that you can't get away. They could obtain a search warrant via satcom and then detain you down the road if there is probable cause. Maybe it is time to revisit the no search warrant ruling.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, skyking.

You could try Somalia - I hear they don't have much law enforcement.

In this thread context, it appears 1st and 3rd world are reversed.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

They are heavy handed, get caught on video beating people up, or shooting innocents dead, but apparantly they are allowed to do it because in the end they always go free and rarely even get fired!

Yeah, and I'm sure you wouldn't want a cop to be around, if you were ever to be mugged, or burgled or whatever.

Cops have to deal with the scum of the earth every single day and they don't always know which one of these dirtbags are gonna pull a gun. I'm sure your kid didn't follow some instruction the cops gave him and because their lives are potentially at risk with every encounter, they made sure they were protected. Did they overdo it a little bit? Maybe. But maybe your kid shouldn't have been speeding. I have no patience for people who break the law and then bitch about the consequences.

[sck5]

My wife and I spent 8 months in the Caribbean and came back a year ago. During that time we never once were hassled by any official. They seemed happy we made a good faith effort to comply with their rules and never did they ever board our boat. Usually they didnt even look out into the harbor to see if there really WAS a boat. Even when we were boarded on returning to Beaufort NC they were polite and only wanted to make sure we didnt have any fresh foods that could have bugs that might escape.

I think many of the horror stories are from people who either are trying to get around what rules there are or who have attitude. My experience is that a friendly effort to do what they want you to do means they will adopt the usual laid back island attitude. Try it! It is way more relaxing!

[sailinman]

considering that law enforcement oficers (if they want to screw with you), dont need to find something to make something up and the fact that current US laws treat boaters like bastard step children, with none of the civil rights that land lubbers have, I fear the law enforcement ilk...

I have a safe boat as outlined by the boaters safety regs... but that doesnt stop the uscg or other law enforcement officers from saying that I dont... if they want, they can issue the tickets, and let me prove my innocence at a later date, meanwhile having me incur the pain of hassle and indirect costs...

being nice or respectful is arbitrary...

not to mention the fact that most everyone I have ever met isnt 100% legal anyways...

conflicting information about the authorities and responsibilites of uscg and homeland security and fish and game etc dont help...

I have heard that uscg doesnt need any permission or warrants or probably cause to board my boat to perform safety inspections, and that observing or testing my holding tanks dont fall under that inspection, yet, half of the folks I speak with indicate that uscg does in fact check the wye valve or insert dyes..

other law enforcement officers need probable cause or permission to board my vessel, but yet, telling them no to their request to come on board seem to only aggrevate them and or cause them to come up with some baloney charge and then drill holes in my hull or tear up my cushions...

boaters / liveaboards need to find a better way to lobby for our rights...

and floating officers can perform the same job that I am grateful that whelled officers perform

btw: I have been in the Keys for almost 40 days now and have been boarded twice.. once on my boat, and once on someone else's...

the first time, homeland security asked for permission which I gave, and they found controlled substance on one of my passengers/crew... he got off with a warning... and I got lucky and was able to keep my boat..

the second time, uscg performed a safety inspection on a friends boat, and he got off with a citation for not having a throwable cushion, even though he had fenders and extra life vests to toss out...

[sailinman]

and also, the laughable requirement for safety are just that 'laughabl'.. they arent there to make us 'safe'... if so, then a mandate/rule/law to have an operating radio would be a requirement... instead, a whistle is needed to call for help...

clearly, cost is not the prohibitive reason for not having a radio, as flares are just as expensive as a radio now adays... and clearly, a radio will be able to get help faster then a whistle, and further away...

but for the sake of not regulating and creating rules every year, they dont bother to create that rule...

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by sailinman

considering that law enforcement oficers (if they want to screw with you), dont need to find something to make something up and the fact that current US laws treat boaters like bastard step children, with none of the civil rights that land lubbers have, I fear the law enforcement ilk...

I have a safe boat as outlined by the boaters safety regs... but that doesnt stop the uscg or other law enforcement officers from saying that I dont... if they want, they can issue the tickets, and let me prove my innocence at a later date, meanwhile having me incur the pain of hassle and indirect costs...

being nice or respectful is arbitrary...

not to mention the fact that most everyone I have ever met isnt 100% legal anyways...

conflicting information about the authorities and responsibilites of uscg and homeland security and fish and game etc dont help...

I have heard that uscg doesnt need any permission or warrants or probably cause to board my boat to perform safety inspections, and that observing or testing my holding tanks dont fall under that inspection, yet, half of the folks I speak with indicate that uscg does in fact check the wye valve or insert dyes..

other law enforcement officers need probable cause or permission to board my vessel, but yet, telling them no to their request to come on board seem to only aggrevate them and or cause them to come up with some baloney charge and then drill holes in my hull or tear up my cushions...

boaters / liveaboards need to find a better way to lobby for our rights...

and floating officers can perform the same job that I am grateful that whelled officers perform

btw: I have been in the Keys for almost 40 days now and have been boarded twice.. once on my boat, and once on someone else's...

the first time, homeland security asked for permission which I gave, and they found controlled substance on one of my passengers/crew... he got off with a warning... and I got lucky and was able to keep my boat..

the second time, uscg performed a safety inspection on a friends boat, and he got off with a citation for not having a throwable cushion, even though he had fenders and extra life vests to toss out...

--so what you are saying, is that on both occasions that you were boarded, violations WERE found.
Not judging you --jus sayin.

[sailinman]

yes, violations were found... and the nothing was made 'safer', and yet costs were incurred...

and even if 'violations' werent found, it is well known that violations could have been made regardless of what they didnt find...

I am guessing you are implying you lead a perfect and 100% legal life style? you have never sped while driving, and or crossed a traffic line, i.e. gone out of your lane of travel on accident? or maybe imbibed something then driven, (car or boat?) you dont need to be drunk to get a driving under the influence citation... (that is different then driving while intoxicated)

do we need to enforce every rule that is broken? or are there 'lucky folk' and unlucky folk? or is there discrimination, (either defined or undefined)..

we need less rule enforcers, and less rules, and more common sense.....

[Astrid]

we need less rule enforcers, and less rules, and more common sense.....

Which brings up the old adage that common sense is, in reality, not so common.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Elysium

If 1st world - yes, there is a LOT more presence of officials on the water these days. And the rules keep piling up.....

Whilst I won't argue as to whether or not the USA is still 1st World , certainly none of that nonsense around here But then we be civilised so don't need so many rules .

[sailinman]

Originally Posted by Astrid

Which brings up the old adage that common sense is, in reality, not so common.

unfortunately you are correct, but does that mean that a few bad apples spoils it for the rest of the bunch?

seems 9/11 has spoiled a lot of our civil freedoms and we put up with it in the name of 'safety, but yet I would question whether or not we are truly safer?

and just like there is not rule/req for a radio, most boaters have them, as they do make common sense... hows about regulating prices for other safety gear or suppliment the costs so that boaters have no reason to not get them, or have the govt give them to us... instead of enforcing not having a throwable cushion, how about giving the boater that doesnt have one a new cushion or a recycled one...



i do appreciate the bigger job that law enforcement folk do.. I truly do... if someone is blowing it and behaving unsafe in public then get him... if you truly suspect someone is smuggling drugs, then go for it.. full steam ahead.. but to stop random boats looking for illegal immigrants is important, then how about doing that on the roads?

how about going to areas where foreigners frequent and profile potential 'threats'? if that is important and folks think they are a true threat? but dont stop boat with 2 or three white guys, and ask if we are from america or if we went to cuba???

that is a waste of resources... truly... and in this day and age, we dont have enough resources to pay for way more essential programs/issues... maybe someday when we have too much money, then yea, have cops checking id's...

[Cheechako]

Let's face it, the "land of the free" resides in much of the third world. The US is free to the extent that you can get a lawyer and sue for your rights if you have enough time and money.... We have third world visitors right now for a few weeks, having been away for a while, they are amazed at how many rules and restrictions our lives have.

[bobconnie]

In my 50+ years of sailing, I have been boarded so many times couldnt even guess how many it's been LOL, and the ONLY citation Ive receved was for a no pull rope on the boats bell !! It was a deliverie boat and I did not ck it !! This was in my most unfavorer area of SOCAL off Ventura I felt stupid for this to happen but it could happen to anyone at anytime, we all make mistakes no matter how much we try, no matter how much we prepare, ***** Happens. Personaly Im always happy to invite them aboard cus I know theres nothing thats gonna get me jail time LOL and at most a couple of Hun cus I messed up !! never made me feel unsafe and its amazing how these folks get to know ya !! and just wave and sometimes hail us to say hello !! but then Im not gonna give these guys a hard time either LOL just sayin some folks have ALL the trouble !! wonder why ??

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by skyking1984

I'm in this for the freedom - to live where there aren't any cops or anyone to come around and tell me how to live my life or what I'm doing wrong. (I'm not a criminal) But I've been reading and hearing horror stories about the gestapo-like behavior of harbor masters, the coast guard, and their ilk. I'd appreciate experienced input on this subject. Thanks

Generally speaking if a person is new to the forum, they usually post their first post in meets and greets, so we can get to know you. Appearing here with a paranoid attitude, whining about something which has not even happened to you on a boat, you probably yet to have is not the best use of a forum.
Please tell us who you are. What your plans are and maybe lighten up a bit...

[avb3]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Whilst I won't argue as to whether or not the USA is still 1st World , certainly none of that nonsense around here But then we be civilised so don't need so many rules .

Ouch! Zing! Zap!