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Old 04-07-2012, 09:20   #76
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
The worst "harbor police" we have encountered was of the fellow cruiser type. Going out in their dinghies to every new arrival and tell them what they can and can not do; often starting shouting when the new arrival does not agree or is disgusted with the behavior.

When they come at me I ignore them until they stop shouting and then ask where their boat is anchored. They never tell me but always ask me why I ask that question. Strange that they can't answer such a simple question, isn't it?! I answer them that I want to know so that I can anchor as far away from them as possible. This normally results in them speeding back to their sorry-excuse-of-aboat so that I know and can go the opposite way.
......
Gosh, has this happened often, occasionally, once??? What part of the world?

I am astounded! I have had folk occasionally drop by with some helpful information but never in a manner that you have described. I am not sure how I would react, perhaps thank them politely and then ignore them - quickly but your way sounds just as effective .
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:27   #77
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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The other half of of you seem to be pompous, condescending elitist snobs with some law enforcement types included, who I avoid associating with in any conditions. But I thank you all for helping me with my decision - if THAT'S the way it is - being snuck up on in the night and suddenly awakened by bright lights of the C.G., being handcuffed and warrant-checked for carrying an unopened bottle of wine, for paying a slip fee late, being routinely treated like a criminal, then that's not anything like the freedom that I have in mind. .
Guess I'm one of those "pompous, elitist, snobs" as I like the presence of the Coast Guard andf the local cops..
They keep all the "Low-Lives" in check......
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:41   #78
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Although your view is probably shared by most wealthy white men I have to disagree. In the US we already have the highest rate of incarceration of any country in the world, many falsely convicted.

(AP) WASHINGTON - More than 2,000 people who were falsely convicted of serious crimes have been exonerated in the United States in the past 23 years, according to a new archive compiled at two universities.

The likelihood of black males going to prison in their lifetime is 28% compared to 4% of white males and 16% of Hispanic males.

The United States features a prison population that is more than quadruple the highest prison population in Western Europe
Race in the United States criminal justice system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is not the quantity of incarceration but the quality.

Prison in SEA is completely different than prison in the USA.

BTW - I have long healthy debates with my brother on this. You would really like him and his point of view.

I live in Singapore which has a reputation for punishments - I was completely comfortable for my 11 y/o to ride the trains with his mates to go to the movies. Put him in a taxi from the sailing club to home and I was positive he would be delivered intact.

I suppose I will stop here cuz we'll never hash our views out without getting modded and this isnt a political forum.

I would love to meet up, buy you some beers and explore the topic. Oh, wait. Lets split the bar tab. I aint a rich white guy - LOL
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:52   #79
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Guess I'm one of those "pompous, elitist, snobs" as I like the presence of the Coast Guard andf the local cops..
They keep all the "Low-Lives" in check......

Phfeww!!-that was close Randy. Looks like we are 1 safer.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:59   #80
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by skyking1984 View Post
... I thank you all for helping me with my decision - if THAT'S the way it is - being snuck up on in the night and suddenly awakened by bright lights of the C.G., being handcuffed and warrant-checked for carrying an unopened bottle of wine, for paying a slip fee late, being routinely treated like a criminal, then that's not anything like the freedom that I have in mind. ...

Skyking, you took away the wrong message. It really isn't like that. Cruising on a sailboat is one of the greatest joys you'll ever experience. Seriously. Try it before you ditch it.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:02   #81
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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As many of you guessed, I'm a troll - Joined this site yesterday. I just inherited a 35' ketch and teetering on the brink of do I want to retire as a full-time live-aboard? I've lived in a log cabin and 3 motorhomes. I'm a straight-to-the-point kind of guy and don't waste time when I have a question. - and - WHEW! - you sure have answered it! Half of you seem to be cut from the same cloth as me - rebellious and independent, and understanding of the question and sympathetic to the situation. The other half of of you seem to be pompous, condescending elitist snobs with some law enforcement types included, who I avoid associating with in any conditions. But I thank you all for helping me with my decision - if THAT'S the way it is - being snuck up on in the night and suddenly awakened by bright lights of the C.G., being handcuffed and warrant-checked for carrying an unopened bottle of wine, for paying a slip fee late, being routinely treated like a criminal, then that's not anything like the freedom that I have in mind. I wish you all happiness in your cruising lives, but as for me, is anyone out there interested in a sailboat project? - 35' fiberglass hull - new Volvo Penta, new sails. been flooded, needs bulkhead, cabin sole work, etc. Some new parts already made - mahogany hatch covers, etc. On a cradle in South Bend, In.

I think if you lived in an RV comfortably you should be fine on a boat that big, although living aboard a boat is more complicated than living on an RV -- .
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:37   #82
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Gosh, has this happened often, occasionally, once??? What part of the world?
Our first encounter with it was in Luperon, Dominican Republic. Last time was Isla Margerita, Venezuela. Have moved west of there which got rid of them (seas too big and winds too high for them in west caribbean

EDIT: oh no, got them in the Bahama's too...

ciao!
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:04   #83
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Re: Harbor Nazis

The US is the most over regulated society in the universe, period, hands down.

Tell me what good a having a throwable flotation thingy within reach for a single hander?? I'm supposed to grab it as I fall overboard? uscg

And of course having 3 (three) anchor lights at deck level at night on a mooring ball isn't good enough. You have to use the one at the top of the mast. That was the well lit Ft Myers Beach, FL mooring area. water cops.

I have flares from 1998 cuz I can't get rid of them easily / legally. And heaven forbid you light one off in a non emergency situation.

Once outa the US . . . safety items??? . . . ha-ha; water cops, huh.

just my 2¢

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Old 04-07-2012, 13:33   #84
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Re: Harbor Nazis

My experience is primarily inland Canadian waterways and some Caribbean islands. I have found no Nazis, although there have been a few tax collectors, fee collectors, busybodies, and police. For the most part, if the country is wealthy and the police well paid, then the cops just do their jobs and are chillaxed (when they aren't being hassled by their bosses or the rich to hassle you in turn). Just remember that authorities work for the local taxpayer and government - and the interests of those folks usually don't coincide with what amounts to a community of sea-gypsies. As soon as we stop being a source of revenue for a community from marina and mooring fees, etc - we become a problem. Then the Nazi analogy begins to become a bit more apt.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:43   #85
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Re: Harbor nazis

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That has been my experience. The only place I've ever been mugged was Barcelona. Even my Italian friends warn me to stay away from Naples. But you know, most every country in the world has some place you shouldn't go.
We vacationed from our home in central Ohio for a week shortly after we moved in. Found out after we returned that the front door latch was faulty and the door stood open for 7 days. No problem. This is pretty normal most places we have lived. Currently in Grand Rapids, Michigan. we could throw the door away and expect nobody to enter.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:14   #86
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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... just wants to be left alone to live his life. I find that's fair and side with him on that. That should be the rules of any society.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:15   #87
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Have to disagree completely
The problem lies not with LE. The problem lies in the judicial and punishment phase. We have to convert our federal criminal training facilities back into prisons that no one would risk being housed in.
I doubt seriously that the OP suggested or meant that the harbor police are going to start tattooing and gasing specific races.... If you are that literal to believe that, then sorry, the discussion should end...

the analogy is clear in my mind that the op meant that harbor police and LE, go beyond normal consititutional liberties and or that our laws are reducing our civil liberties....and that the harbor, and world are turning into a police state...

I agree that prisons need to be more of a deterrant, but again, police have sufficient authority and ability to detain, arrest, and cause significant inconvenience to those that are guilty of 'lesser' crimes, and or no crimes, so that many folk are caused financial penalty when they dont need to...

how many folk have pled guilty and or paid fines just because they cant afford to take the day off to go thru the process.... (one day to plead not guilty, another day for a pretrial hearing, another day or two for jury selection and or trial process, etc...

cops use the process to intimidate and leverage for a myriad of reasons... sometimes it's because they believe a crime is committed or that a person needs to learn a lesson...

sorry, but cops arent my teachers... I know right from wrong... and whether or not there is a tossable flotation device that is marked with a uscg stamp is onboard or not, doesnt teach me anything...

if someone falls overboard, I will probably leave them because I dont have a tossable on board????

a life jacket is better suited to throw to someone then a square pad..... at least the person can put the life jacket on?!

but the rule is the rule, and I am sure that earns some income and justifies some folks jobs/careers...
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:15   #88
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Re: Harbor Nazis

I am guessing by the spelling that Harbor Nazis not related to Grammer Nazis.

FWIW, over here we actually had Harbour Nazis! - they deported folks (including me Grandad) to places some of them never came back from (albeit me Grandad did - he only dissapeared after the war - followed by Special Branch).......and I don't take offence at the term, IMO pretty descriptive of a mindset, even if "only following orders".
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:19   #89
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I'm not going to read all of the replies!

..


If you don't want to abade by the rules of whatever society you are around, well ..................... stay away from it! It is a-hole thinking like this that cause the problems for the rest of us!
I think that is/was his intent... to stay away from society, and sail off and avoid or minimize contact, but 'society' has shown effort to keep this guy and others in their system...

btw, 'rules of society' would suggest that a person do read replies so as to offer relevent comments and or not write something that has been written already..

but I guess your rules suggest/mandate that you can do whatever and others just need to deal with your lack of willingness to do a minimal amount of effort to carry on a discussion...

just sayin'
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:23   #90
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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If I were american I would be more concerned about being one of the most indebted country in the world, and spending borrowed money on over policing... everything.
EXACTLY

+1M

if we had a surplus of resources and money we could spend anything to make things PERFECT...

but when we are cutting budgets for the most basic and necessary of things/programs, wihle spending ungodly amounts on training/recruitment/and enforcing the most stupid of rules/laws, is pathetic...

but we all know that the most basic/stupid rules are the gateway laws that allow LE to look for and find bigger issues...


it used to be PAPERS!?! Let me see your PAPERS!?!

and if your papers werent right or you didnt hand them over willingly, or with some intrepidation or 'disdain', then they would 'investigate' more diligently...
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