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Old 04-07-2012, 04:51   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinman
it isnt necessarily boat 'nazis', as the reference is about law enforcement.. and for those that get offended about the comparisons to nazi and or holocaust, give it up... one doesnt need to gas people to be a nazi... nor does the statement of Im going to kill you mean I am going to kill you... read and understand the intent/point, not pick it apart and use side arguments to detract from thge point...

and as for those that have never experienced an overzealous law enforcment agent, congrats... but odds are, you know someone, at least one person who has, and or heard stories, either on forums like this or in the paper or on the news... cant we all just get along???

cops/law enforcement agents have a reputation... maybe the minority, but again, for them, the few bad apples spoils it for their bunch too...

they can spend time, money and energy combatting that misnomer, or they can ignore it and tell us that it dont exist or that they arent that type... doesnt make the reputation less valid...
Have to disagree completely.

The thread title is bad and the idea that harbor police can be compared to nazis is inflamatory rhetoric designed to incite heated debate. Guess what? It is working...

It is impossible to understand intent on the internet or many other places. We can only go by what is written, marginally enhanced by emoticons and smiley's. Therefore literal interpretation of what people write is the norm.

I have had exactly one bad encounter with any kind of law enforcement in my whole life. Certainly roadside beatings of suspects is apprehensible, but to rag on the community for the sins of a few is narrow minded and unfair. Anyone who can take a bullet at any routine traffic stop gets my full respect, compliance and gratitude.

You wanna board my boat, you should have to ask as a fundamental constitutional right, but if you get your paperwork, or my permission come right on aboard I got zero to hide...

The problem lies not with LE. The problem lies in the judicial and punishment phase. We have to convert our federal criminal training facilities back into prisons that no one would risk being housed in.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:19   #62
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by skyking1984 View Post
I'm in this for the freedom - to live where there aren't any cops or anyone to come around and tell me how to live my life or what I'm doing wrong. (I'm not a criminal) But I've been reading and hearing horror stories about the gestapo-like behavior of harbor masters, the coast guard, and their ilk. I'd appreciate experienced input on this subject. Thanks

I'm not going to read all of the replies!

Everytime I read a post like this I laugh! You want all the benefits of society but don't want to have to live or accept any of the rules of it! basically the thinking is "It is all about me and I want to do whatever I want and screw the rest of you following the rules!".

If you don't want to abade by the rules of whatever society you are around, well ..................... stay away from it! It is a-hole thinking like this that cause the problems for the rest of us!
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:05   #63
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Re: Harbor Nazis

Don't deny the Natzi reference, militaristic policing might be a more politically correct way of portraying this aspect of american law enforcement, but the problem I saw was how the US is a poorly run industrial military complex and it is starting to show in the way it is policed.

If I were american I would be more concerned about being one of the most indebted country in the world, and spending borrowed money on over policing... everything.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:28   #64
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Re: Harbor Nazis

Don, It is interesting how two people can read the same thing and see two different things. skyking has only stated he has "read or heard" theses horror stories. He hasn't claimed to experience this or been the cause of law enforcement to act in the way he's read or heard about. Though I don't care for the words "Gestapo or ilk" he does basically state he is not a criminal and just wants to be left alone to live his life. I find that's fair and side with him on that. That should be the rules of any society.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:52   #65
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Re: Harbor Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeandthed View Post
Don't deny the Natzi reference, militaristic policing might be a more politically correct way of portraying this aspect of american law enforcement, but the problem I saw was how the US is a poorly run industrial military complex and it is starting to show in the way it is policed.

If I were american I would be more concerned about being one of the most indebted country in the world, and spending borrowed money on over policing... everything.
Let me start by saying I am a Canadian expat living here in the US for decades. Your assessment of the US is typical of many outsiders and basically boogie-man thinking. I loved the beauty of Canada but detested the constant run-around I received from the government agencies up there. I knew at an early age, I was not going to get anywhere in life. I came down here with nothing and built a great life for myself. Through hard work, playing by the rules and allowed to be free to do my own thing, afforded me a lifestyle I only dreamed of in Canada. I still go up there to visit my friends who had never made it out of the steel mills and grateful each time I made the decisions I did.
As far as the OP...again it is boogie-man thinking. Check out this Youtube video and see how our so called militaristic nazis really help people.
Another question I'd like to pose is how many here that seem to find fault with authority, do community service work? really...I'd like to know. I have and in doing so, seen the other side of law enforcement...the human side.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:15   #66
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Re: Harbor nazis

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I like the fact that the CG can detain, board, and then search my boat which is my second home. They can do this without probable cause under the guise of a safety inspection.

The CG will not let you schedule a safety inspection at a mutual agreeable time.

Freedom from unreasonable search was trampled in the courts because it is inconvenient to obtain a signed search warrant if the yacht is at sea.

I would respect and welcome the presence of the CG so much more if they would stop this nonsense.

In todays world the CG has access to swift boats, air support, and other means to track your vessel so that you can't get away. They could obtain a search warrant via satcom and then detain you down the road if there is probable cause. Maybe it is time to revisit the no search warrant ruling.

I'm sorry about how they do it in your area, but here the CG performs safety inspections all the time by scheduling them at mutually agreeable times. If you're missing something they just tell you, not ticket you. Then you can have a re-do *if you want,* and they will give you a sticker to put on your boat stating that you have met all their requirements.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:18   #67
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Re: Harbor nazis

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Originally Posted by sailinman View Post
considering that law enforcement oficers (if they want to screw with you), dont need to find something to make something up and the fact that current US laws treat boaters like bastard step children, with none of the civil rights that land lubbers have, I fear the law enforcement ilk...

I have a safe boat as outlined by the boaters safety regs... but that doesnt stop the uscg or other law enforcement officers from saying that I dont... if they want, they can issue the tickets, and let me prove my innocence at a later date, meanwhile having me incur the pain of hassle and indirect costs...

being nice or respectful is arbitrary...

not to mention the fact that most everyone I have ever met isnt 100% legal anyways...

conflicting information about the authorities and responsibilites of uscg and homeland security and fish and game etc dont help...

I have heard that uscg doesnt need any permission or warrants or probably cause to board my boat to perform safety inspections, and that observing or testing my holding tanks dont fall under that inspection, yet, half of the folks I speak with indicate that uscg does in fact check the wye valve or insert dyes..

other law enforcement officers need probable cause or permission to board my vessel, but yet, telling them no to their request to come on board seem to only aggrevate them and or cause them to come up with some baloney charge and then drill holes in my hull or tear up my cushions...

boaters / liveaboards need to find a better way to lobby for our rights...

and floating officers can perform the same job that I am grateful that whelled officers perform

btw: I have been in the Keys for almost 40 days now and have been boarded twice.. once on my boat, and once on someone else's...

the first time, homeland security asked for permission which I gave, and they found controlled substance on one of my passengers/crew... he got off with a warning... and I got lucky and was able to keep my boat..

the second time, uscg performed a safety inspection on a friends boat, and he got off with a citation for not having a throwable cushion, even though he had fenders and extra life vests to toss out...

They are entitled to inspect the Y valve, and I'm just as glad -- I don't really want someone else's poop on my hull.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:23   #68
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Re: Harbor nazis

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Originally Posted by sailinman View Post
yes, violations were found... and the nothing was made 'safer', and yet costs were incurred...

and even if 'violations' werent found, it is well known that violations could have been made regardless of what they didnt find...

I am guessing you are implying you lead a perfect and 100% legal life style? you have never sped while driving, and or crossed a traffic line, i.e. gone out of your lane of travel on accident? or maybe imbibed something then driven, (car or boat?) you dont need to be drunk to get a driving under the influence citation... (that is different then driving while intoxicated)

do we need to enforce every rule that is broken? or are there 'lucky folk' and unlucky folk? or is there discrimination, (either defined or undefined)..

we need less rule enforcers, and less rules, and more common sense.....

But you really SHOULD have a proper throwable. A life vest floats, no doubt, but if your sailing companion was injured in the fall off the boat, he or she may not be able to put it on. I like the horseshoe myself as there are several ways to hang on to it securely. In addition I can tie it to the boat, so if the "soggy one" grabs it, I can secure them to the boat and start rescue immediately. I have a long line tied to it, coiled and ready for instant release. I also have throwable cushions, which throw much better than most life vests.

I think not having something like this clearly visible on the outside of your boat might invite a safety inspection. Just sayin' ...
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:30   #69
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Let me start by saying I am a Canadian expat living here in the US for decades. Your assessment of the US is typical of many outsiders and basically boogie-man thinking. I loved the beauty of Canada but detested the constant run-around I received from the government agencies up there. I knew at an early age, I was not going to get anywhere in life. I came down here with nothing and built a great life for myself. Through hard work, playing by the rules and allowed to be free to do my own thing, afforded me a lifestyle I only dreamed of in Canada. I still go up there to visit my friends who had never made it out of the steel mills and grateful each time I made the decisions I did.
As far as the OP...again it is boogie-man thinking....
Amen...and good for you. It's a pleasant change to hear someone speak well of the US. It is unfortunate that such sentiments are most frequently expressed by folks that have come here from elsewhere (an Indian expat that runs a shop nearby describes the US as "...a Paradise").

FWIW I have been sailing for over 50 years. East and west coast from the San Juan Islands to Florida and we have never had any grief from the authorities--Coast Guard or otherwise. I have always found the Coast Guardsmen/women we've come in contact with courtious, friendly and quite professional but in a relaxed maner.

FWIW...
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:32   #70
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Not sure how the law looks at this I have a man overboard board spear/skewer with a float attached does that count as a throwable device.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:47   #71
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Re: Harbor Nazis

mob kit does count as a throwable device.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:52   #72
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Re: Harbor Nazis

As many of you guessed, I'm a troll - Joined this site yesterday. I just inherited a 35' ketch and teetering on the brink of do I want to retire as a full-time live-aboard? I've lived in a log cabin and 3 motorhomes. I'm a straight-to-the-point kind of guy and don't waste time when I have a question. - and - WHEW! - you sure have answered it! Half of you seem to be cut from the same cloth as me - rebellious and independent, and understanding of the question and sympathetic to the situation. The other half of of you seem to be pompous, condescending elitist snobs with some law enforcement types included, who I avoid associating with in any conditions. But I thank you all for helping me with my decision - if THAT'S the way it is - being snuck up on in the night and suddenly awakened by bright lights of the C.G., being handcuffed and warrant-checked for carrying an unopened bottle of wine, for paying a slip fee late, being routinely treated like a criminal, then that's not anything like the freedom that I have in mind. I wish you all happiness in your cruising lives, but as for me, is anyone out there interested in a sailboat project? - 35' fiberglass hull - new Volvo Penta, new sails. been flooded, needs bulkhead, cabin sole work, etc. Some new parts already made - mahogany hatch covers, etc. On a cradle in South Bend, In.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:55   #73
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Re: Harbor Nazis

Celestialsailor

I never said Canada had less red tape. I too left, now I'm living in Panama for a while while I cruise. But we do have less law enforcement, and it is safer. Did you know that Costa Rica is the safest central american country and it is unconstitutional to have a military. Lots of Ex-Pats who made their money in the states are fleeing to this safe haven to retire after making their money in the US. No point paying back into a system that doesn't work right?

Yeah, it is amazing what the coast guard does, I don't know how the world of shipping could have operated for the past 500 years without them.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:10   #74
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Re: Harbor Nazis

The worst "harbor police" we have encountered was of the fellow cruiser type. Going out in their dinghies to every new arrival and tell them what they can and can not do; often starting shouting when the new arrival does not agree or is disgusted with the behavior.

When they come at me I ignore them until they stop shouting and then ask where their boat is anchored. They never tell me but always ask me why I ask that question. Strange that they can't answer such a simple question, isn't it?! I answer them that I want to know so that I can anchor as far away from them as possible. This normally results in them speeding back to their sorry-excuse-of-aboat so that I know and can go the opposite way.

Some officials are indeed nasty. We have had .50 machine guns pointed at us just because they were passing us. South Florida was definitely in that category but we have noticed much improvement over the last 4 years or so. They must have fired the bad ones and sent the rest to some training about how to treat tourists etc.

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Old 04-07-2012, 09:16   #75
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Re: Harbor Nazis

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Have to disagree completely.

The problem lies not with LE. The problem lies in the judicial and punishment phase. We have to convert our federal criminal training facilities back into prisons that no one would risk being housed in.
Although your view is probably shared by most wealthy white men I have to disagree. In the US we already have the highest rate of incarceration of any country in the world, many falsely convicted.

(AP) WASHINGTON - More than 2,000 people who were falsely convicted of serious crimes have been exonerated in the United States in the past 23 years, according to a new archive compiled at two universities.

The likelihood of black males going to prison in their lifetime is 28% compared to 4% of white males and 16% of Hispanic males.

The United States features a prison population that is more than quadruple the highest prison population in Western Europe
Race in the United States criminal justice system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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