guns and sailing

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Yes, but that's the "high seas", international waters, not local waters. I believe the OP will be visting countries.

The point several posters have been making is that the OP is subject to Brazilian firearms possession laws all but the last 25nm to a foreign country. A Brazilian vessel may be boarded by Brazilian officials anywhere in international waters and Brazilian laws enforced.

Brazil doesn't tend to project its military and CG forces like the USA does but I bet they range out at least 1,000nm from the Brazilian coast.

Just to make it more fun the USA has a lot of agreements with other countries allowing them to board their vessels in international waters. They have to get case by case permission as I understand it and a Coast Guard detatchment on USNavy vessels has to do the actual boarding since Navy personnel are not allowed to do law enforcement duties.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...al_waters.html

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Nope, verboten and you will need a licence to even carry a fishing rod. Don't even think about a spear gun.

Don't forget the EU has about 4000 years of history killing each other. Now we are over that malarkey we are all best buddies, most of the time

The US will eventually be like us, it will just take a few centuries before you lay down those guns.

Pete

Our ancestors left England for good reasons and the founders of our country had the memory of living in England fresh in their minds when they wrote the Second Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing the right of American citizens to own guns!

As for killing each other, some folks just need to be killed.

[Mare Nostrum]

Hi Pete7,
An excellent suggestion!!

I think that, at the end of the day, the most likely event of firearms on-board is probably an unintended stray bullet shot straight through the hull.
Followed by the sinking of the vessel.

I'll stick to my flare guns and machetes, thank you.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jdege

... But as a Brazilian, the first question is what restrictions does Brazil place on civilian firearms on boats...

The regulation of guns in Brazil is categorised as restrictive.
More ➥ Guns in Brazil — Firearms, gun law and gun control

[Olddan1943]

I did not have a gun onboard until after the night my boat was broken into while I was on board asleep. They cleaned me out of over $2000 worth of cash and credit cards and driver's license and other IDs.

This is a gated marina in Aventura FL. My dock boxes had been broken in repeatedly, they also stole my electric scooter.

Shortly after, I went to the marina office and told the dock master, just tell everyone I was a crazy old man with a 12ga shotgun. IF I am robbed again, they will not be leaving via the dock. If they were good swimmers, or not, they will be leaving by water. I have never been bothered again.

IF boarded by the USCG, TELL them where the guns are located but, never offer to show them. Stay at the helm. They will be happy to locate the guns and determine if they are loaded.

My reason for the 12ga shotgun, to protect myself against sharks and aliens.

NO gun is worth a visit to the prison.

[Sandibar]

First, leaving the legal questions aside, to the OP: I can't say anything about the Carribean, but why on earth would you bring a gun to Europe, where basically no one carries one (yes, we have one of the highest proportional gun ownership in Finland, but it's almost exclusively hunting weapons)? The locals don't consider small firearms necessary for personal protection.
You state it would be against theft, etc. Here, and I suspect in most other countries in Europe you can't just go shooting at thiefs. Self defense against aggressors needs to be proportional. Which means that even if you could somehow legally access a gun in a situation, you could legally only use one if someone really tries to kill you. While it probably sounds strange to people used to guns ownership, it's a pretty effective policy for keeping streets safer. There just aren't that many small firearms around. I think I don't know anyone who owns one.

[Exile]

By contrast, most of the polling & research suggests somewhere 1/3 to 1/2 of all U.S. households have at least one firearm, and there is somewhere around 300 million lawfully owned firearms in the U.S. Hard to pin down the stats, but here's one such study from 2013. There's been a steady increase in sales & carry permits since then:

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear | Pew Research Center

Probably explains in part why there's often such a disconnect on these threads between posters from the U.S. and other parts of the world. But also helps explain why several experienced cruisers who are also long-time gun owners have opted not to bring guns onboard. It's more about the hassle factor than anything else.

[DeborahLee]

Check out the 25 1/2 mm flare gun. Read everything on it!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by DeborahLee

Check out the 25 1/2 mm flare gun. Read everything on it!

Why? they aren't going to be allowed anymore than a hand gun. Would you really shoot a thief with a flare gun That would be serious prison time.

Instead of recommending something that has a round more suitable for a small cannon, why not listen to what the Europeans are saying, after all they live there.



Pete

[Olddan1943]

Scratching my fast failing memory and I have come up with this.

There are 2 components involved, the gun and the ammo.
Because the sale of ammo is either forbidden or highly restricted in some countries, you had better be ready to relinquish the gun and the ammo.

Again, in my fading memory, I recall, IF you declare the ammo, aka number or rounds, or discovered during a custom inspection while entering a foreign port, you may be required to produce the same ammo, prior getting permission to exit the port.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why? they aren't going to be allowed anymore than a hand gun. Would you really shoot a thief with a flare gun That would be serious prison time.

Instead of recommending something that has a round more suitable for a small cannon, why not listen to what the Europeans are saying, after all they live there.



Pete

This is what I keep reading & hearing too. Even the cheap plastic flare guns that are commonly found in chandleries here in the U.S. are often not allowed in Euro countries & elsewhere. There are plenty of alternatives one can use for distress signaling so probably not worth the hassle.

[slegg]

Originally Posted by Jdege

A lot of people seem to be jumping on to this thread with the assumption that you are just another U.S. gun nut. You said, of course, that you are Brazilian.

International oceanic law specifies that it is the law of the flag nation that rules, at sea. So someone from the U.S. cab carry a gun onboard because U.S. law allows it, and the question is what well be required by the nations you visit.

But as a Brazilian, the first question is what restrictions does Brazil place on civilian firearms on boats. I've read very little about Brazilian gun laws and nothing about how they apply to boating, but I'd be very surprised if they were as relax as U.S. law.

So start with researching your own law, because that's what you're going to have to operate under, when you leave and while you're at sea.

Here in Brasil we can have a gun .38 or .380( no bigger) at home or at work, but you can´t transport it from a place to the other without a written permission from the local police. The exception are the shooters that go to contests. Those are registered in the army as shooters and can carry a loaded hand gun (I carry a .45) to defend the other guns he is transporting to a contest. That´s where I fit in. There´s no law about boats and guns. If you are lucky (or well conected) you can get with the federal police a concealed carry permit, but nothing bigger than .38 or .380. Even so there are exceptions like churchs and schools and events with great number of people. I guess that´s why so many shootings happenned in USA in those places. The criminal knew for sure nobody else would be carrying.

[slegg]

Originally Posted by Olddan1943

I did not have a gun onboard until after the night my boat was broken into while I was on board asleep. They cleaned me out of over $2000 worth of cash and credit cards and driver's license and other IDs.

This is a gated marina in Aventura FL. My dock boxes had been broken in repeatedly, they also stole my electric scooter.

Shortly after, I went to the marina office and told the dock master, just tell everyone I was a crazy old man with a 12ga shotgun. IF I am robbed again, they will not be leaving via the dock. If they were good swimmers, or not, they will be leaving by water. I have never been bothered again.

IF boarded by the USCG, TELL them where the guns are located but, never offer to show them. Stay at the helm. They will be happy to locate the guns and determine if they are loaded.

My reason for the 12ga shotgun, to protect myself against sharks and aliens.

NO gun is worth a visit to the prison.

Second. Good advices.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Exile

This is what I keep reading & hearing too. Even the cheap plastic flare guns that are commonly found in chandleries here in the U.S. are often not allowed in Euro countries & elsewhere. There are plenty of alternatives one can use for distress signaling so probably not worth the hassle.

Indeed, I have never seen a flare gun outside the Army and they were few and far between. You can just about carry a set of mini flares if you have a good reason for them apart from Northern Ireland were I needed a licence from the Police to even by marine flares.

Pains Wessex Mini Flare Kit - £49.95

[Olddan1943]

Feel free to correct me but, I think only the 25 1/2mm flare gun is approved by SOLAS. Considering every merchant and cruise ship carry these flare guns, I doubt if much stink will be if you have one on board.

I am rather sure the 12ga insert is not approved by many, if any, foreign govts. nor SOLAS and failure to declare the insert and the ammo puts the owner in a different category.

To paraphrase the Brits', 'In for a penny, in for a pound.'
If you are intent on keeping a gun on board, a nice 12ga pump will be easier to explain than a 25 1/2mm insert and a box of 12ga shells.

If you intend to leave US waters, I agree with the person who said, 'leave the hand guns at home.'

One remaining question, in my feeble mind. To have a handgun on board, in US Waters, must you have a weapon's permit or is the boat considered your home where a permit may not be required?