Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-11-2013, 18:50   #106
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by engele View Post
I have been really intrigued by the Rossi Circuit Judge on our boat for several reasons. I already have other guns, but a small caliber compact long gun has a lot of advantages. It's a single or double action revolver action, so it has five rapid shots of .410 buck or .45 Colt when you want them.

It's simple and reliable like a revolver. Comes in stainless. Doesn't have handgun legal issues in some states. Has a wide variety of ammunition and it's not cost prohibitive to shoot. Has more practical range than a handgun. Has more range when shooting .45 than a shotgun.

Anyone know of a downside to this gun for a boat gun?


Take a look: Circuit Judge 45LC/410Ga 18.5' Stainless Bl Hardwood Monte Carlo Stk
Hi engele, I have handled one before but I haven't fired it. My uncle is frail and was looking for something he could handle. EVerything else was too hard to rack, or even load, with his disorder. It is a practical idea, with the choice of ammo, which is less likely to go through the wall with the .410. It is not built to super high tolerances, but seemed serviceable enough. I would think that it almost passes as a collectors piece. It is different. If you have it confiscated, you're out $400 or so IIRC.

My US cruising choice is a Kimber 1911 in stainless, but impractical for international cruising. Of course it is hardly necessary, but I don't carry an EPIRB hoping to set it off....

I had not seen the 870 marinized - I bet it is nice. Looks like a pretty good step up from a 500, but many of us already own the 500 it seems. The shorter barrels are practical for the boat, and I would want something with chokes in case I had a chance to shoot clays for a reasonable price. Suboptimal for clays, but a good challenge. The pistol grip might cause problems with officials, so a "short long gun" appears to be the best option.

The Rossi is chambered just like the S&W and Taurus, but is a "short long gun", and may be a really good fit. I guess the S&W does offer 45 ACP which is pretty handy. The finish of the Rossi might be problematic. I'd keep it well oiled. Oh wait - it comes in stainless, huh? Not a bad pick....

A shame that something much more accurate and appropriate for most tasks is less accepted and deemed more criminal. I'll have to leave the Kimber or Dan Wesson at home in favor of a run of the mill scatter gun, which is more of a risk to bystanders.

To be effective as a high latitude gun, how would a 12 Ga work for bear? Buckshot would not be a good choice, and I wonder about the accuracy of a slug. Is the 870 rifled? It looks like it would be a decent little sporting gun, and there are some opportunities to use the shotgun for sporting, which is both fun and a good way to stay competent.
__________________

__________________
cheoah is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 18:56   #107
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Boat: Catalina 27
Posts: 4
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Just for the sake of argument I'd have to pick a handgun, something like a 9mm Glock or equivalent. The weapon is no good to you or your wife if it is not quickly accessible in the middle of the night, so for me that means it's in the v-berth somewhere since there's no room (storage or swing) in my v-berth for a shotgun.

As stated above the Glock is a good idea. Remember to clean it and cycle often as the rounds will rust in the chamber due to salt spray. Ask me how I know. Secondly practice and more practice. Practice shooting at night and during the day using a flashlight at night. If you tote a pistol, then spread those magazines everywhere on the boat because if you ever have to use it, then you could need more than one magazine quickly. Shooting at a real person under stress is tough especially when they want to kill you in a hurry. Be ready.

bvmbandit
__________________

__________________
bvmbandit is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 19:14   #108
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxuxx View Post
I sleep with it near my pillow, chambered without safety on.
might want to re-think the no-safety program under the pillow. sounds risky. risque? no, risky.
__________________
cheoah is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 19:33   #109
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Easy to swing in a short space = handgun
Second best = short barrel shotgun or rifle

Easy to operate for female = moderate caliber handgun with big cushy rubber grips
second best = small shotgun with moderate power shells

Inexpensive ammo (& easy to find everywhere) = 12 ga birdshot
second best = 20 ga bird shot
3d best = common pistol calibers, eg. 9mm, .40 cal, .38 spl

Easily storred = handgun

A shot gun loaded with bird shot has the added benefit of being devastating at close range, but loosing destructive power quickly as the range opens past a few boat lengths. I call this being neighbor friendly. The down side to 20 ga. is that you can not buy ammo bigger than #3buck. 00 & 000 do not exist in that shell size.

A rifle has the advantage of being effective at ranges over a few hundred yards. If you suspect that you may need that capability, then this is your only choice.
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 19:37   #110
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvmbandit View Post
Remember to clean it and cycle often as the rounds will rust in the chamber due to salt spray. Ask me how I know.
Was that ammo steel, aluminum or brass case?
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 19:46   #111
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheoah View Post
how would a 12 Ga work for bear? Buckshot would not be a good choice, and I wonder about the accuracy of a slug. Is the 870 rifled?
OOO buck is effective on bears at moderate range. Slugs tend to be better. I can hit pie plates at 40 yards with cheap Forestner slugs out of an 18" smooth bore. Rifled barrels are available for the 870 if you want them.
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 20:11   #112
Registered User
 
The Other Gary's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Frenchmans Bay, Ontario
Boat: Bayliner 3988 MY
Posts: 49
Re: Gun Question

As a full time liveaboard in Canada I do not have the luxury of leaving my firearms behind as I am "home" wherever I am.
My cruising grounds are Canada, East Coast US and Bahamas so I am good to go with an annual BATF form 6 temporary Import permit and declaring at Bahamian Customs.
Transiting the Erie Canal and Hudson can be problematical as the NY and NJ laws are far more resrtictive than Canadian Laws. For that reason I no longer own any handguns as the Federal Safe Passage laws do not apply if you do stopovers in those states.
I carry a Mossberg 510 youth model 20 ga. pump with 18" barrel as this is easy to swing and the Admiral can also use it. slugs and #3 buck
A Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine scoped. This has been my deer rifle for over 30 years and is a keeper. Remember this is my home so it is not onboard just to have a firearm.
A Ruger 10/22 WMR is the baby brother to the .44 and also a keeper.
All are stored with combination trigger locks and I have an electronic safe bolted and 5200 in an inconspicuous locker for ammunition. This is as secure as most people store at home.
__________________
The Other Gary is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 20:14   #113
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSloth View Post
It occurs to me that the use of shotgun ammo (whether from a Taurus Judge or a shotgun) inside the boat may not be the best option depending one the ammo. A light load, such as bird shot, would be prone to ricochet in such an enclosed environment. ...

... Are there any production light loads for 9 or 38 that one can buy off the shelf and not require some custom reloads?
Steel shot bounces around a bit. Lead shot, not so much.

"cowboy action shooting" ammo is reduced power & commercially available.
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 20:24   #114
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
What about the Stoeger Coach Gun in Nickel? Might be easier to deal with at Customs. Or maybe a bolt 12 gauge? The Coach Gun is pretty ideal though. Just hard to convince anyone it's for hunting.
Personally, I like coach guns. The Stoeger is a good low-priced option of you plan to shoot shot. I think that the standard fixed chokes are modified & full. They give pretty good patterns.

If you want to shoot slugs, then get a Baikal coach gun. They usually come with cylinder bore barrels.

I've taken a coach gun to hunt deer in thick brush. It worked out well for me.
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 20:30   #115
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,827
Re: Gun Question

White?? What? Where?

Huh??
__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 20:44   #116
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post

For stand off, a 30-30 can deliver more ft lbs of energy than a .223 or 7.62x39 at greater distances.
The last time that I looked it up, I seem to remember that a .30-30 & a 7.62 x 39 had roughly the same muzzle velocity with the same weight bullet. Given that, How do you figure that the flat pointed .30-30 projectile will give you more punch at greater distances than the pointy 7.62 Ruskie Shortie with its higher ballistic coefficient?
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 21:21   #117
Registered User
 
Krogensailor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Naples Fl
Boat: Kadey Krogen 38 cutter
Posts: 355
Images: 13
Re: Gun Question

Yikes! This thread and the ignore thread need to come together. We got white folks all up in the tea bag folks, mixed in with international bluster and God help us, I think they all have guns. Good stuff. I sail off with my little SW SS 38. Hope I never have to shoot some nit wit with this thing.
__________________
Krogensailor is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 21:36   #118
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSloth View Post
Keneitc energy is mass x the square of velocity. This likely means that smaller faster rounds will give more penetration than larger slower rounds....

...Are there any production light loads for 9 or 38 that one can buy off the shelf and not require some custom reloads?
The part about kinetic energy is thrown off a bit because soft tissue does not react the same at all velocities. It puts up greater resistance to higher speed impacts. High speed bullets, like from a .223 (3,000+fps), tend to fragment & damage a large shallow area of soft tissue at close ranges. Maximum penetration depth in soft tissue occurs around 1,700fps with stoutly constructed projectiles.

Low velocity ammo is available off-the-shelf for revolvers, pump guns, etc, but not for automatics. Auto-loaders will jam with under powered ammo.
__________________
pbiJim is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 21:53   #119
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
It's apparent not many have declared guns with customs of many countries yet. I did a couple dozen times and found that:

- Handguns are trouble. They do not want you to bring them.
- Shotguns with shortened barrels and/or non-standard stocks are trouble too. They do not want you to bring them.
- Have a good gun locker aboard. They do not want it to be easy to take the gun from your boat.

There are some rules like for example minimum barrel length of 22" (from memory, may well be different) and minimum overall length of xx". All that to prevent guns that can easily be concealed. The mariner versions are that minimum size IIRC.

I have been allowed to keep the shotgun (unmodified Mossberg 500 Mariner) aboard, where handguns would have been taken in for duration of my stay. Also, I have been allowed to keep the gun because I have a gun locker. They didn't even seal it and this was in a country where they are supposed to take in any type of gun for the duration of your stay. I have had coastguard aboard for inspection in Venezuela and Colombia where they were not at all interested in the shotgun. It is considered like a machete.

I carry three types of shells: plenty bird shot as it is cheap and good enough for close quarters defense (anything is lethal within 10m / 30'). Then I have some buckshot and some 3" Magnum Remington sluggers like the Terminator uses in the movies This would be to shoot the croc or engine block or bear or shark and stop them I hope.

I never needed the gun but needed it when I didn't have it yet. Just like spare parts.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline  
Old 18-11-2013, 21:59   #120
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
Well, if you are going to be at sea, how about a Sea Service Musket:




Trust Astrid to bring out the black powder!


Isn't the musket a bit large for a modern boat? They do tend to be a bit smaller than a 74 after all. Perhaps the Sea Service pistol instead?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	63.3 KB
ID:	70695  
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.