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Old 18-11-2013, 08:03   #76
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Re: Gun Question

It is unfortunate that a thread on tools has drifted into tactics and included so many misconceptions.

Here are the facts that anyone can verify.

1. Lawful gun owners are at least 3x LESS likely to commit ANY kind of crime whatsoever, than the general public. Look up the stats on FL concealed carry permit holders. Educated yourself.

2. It is dishonest to equate the ability to use lethal force with the desire or the will to do so. NO ONE wants to kill ANYONE for taking their $500 chartplotter. Ethics aside, doing so instantly transports you into the criminal justice system. Everyone who owns a firearm understands what that means.

3. NO, you do not need to be a Navy SEAL to hit a moving target at sea. People in the Keys do this all the time for fun. It is much cheaper than going to the one or two ranges in the Keys. On any given day, you can go to ANY shooting range in the country and see someone putting 5 rounds inside 1-2 inches from 50ft....pistol, freehand. Many can easily keep 5 rounds inside 4 inches from 25 yards, pistol, freehand, without even trying. A levergun can put 5 rounds inside one inch at 100 yards. Firepower is fine, accuracy is final.

4. Many who are trolling here confuse tools and tactics. There is a big difference and you need to have both. This thread began as a question regarding the TOOL. Tactics are a very different thing. This is amply demonstrated by Blake...right tool...wrong tactic.

5. What do you need a rifle for? Because nothing else can keep a boat of bad guys away 300 yards. THAT is a tactic.

6. The guy with a knife is not there to kill you. He is there to steal your stuff. He is defeated (meaning you can protect your LIFE) by a locked companionway.

7. Everyone must decide for themselves. However, for most, a firearm is not used to protect your stuff...it is used to protect your life. The choice to carry one is the same choice one makes to carry a life raft. Low probability, high consequence event. Cost/benefit. For under $1000, you could have a hand gun and long gun and be covered out to 300 yards.

8. Prevention is even more important, if you carry a weapon. If an armed intruder has broken into and is inside your cabin in the middle of the night, you are in the worst possible scenario. If you hear and are awake, and ready BEFORE someone breaks into your cabin...you can then be in a tactically superior situation than the bad guy is. YOU then get to chose how the situation proceeds. The smart move is to get the bad guy to go away. If the bad guy presses his attack, you are in a superior position to counter.

9. To the OP...carrying a weapon is fine...but well before you do...you need to give considerable thought to how and when you would employ it. Never brandish a weapon. A weapon is a tool, taken out and used when there is no other choice to protect your life or the life of a loved one. As a responsible gun owner, I am very certain you understand that...even if most posting here do not.

OK - you can all go back to your normal banter.

Best

J
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:04   #77
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Re: Gun Question

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Let's hope all these pumped up Rambos stay cruising in the USA and leave the rest of the world to civilised cruisers.
Fancy a spot of tea?
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:05   #78
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I actually think a gun to defend the boat is a bit in needed. The reason I have one onboard is because I carry at all times.

I have never thought I would need to repel boarders. However, the time I pulled into the marina looking for fuel on a holiday weekend and they refused to start the fuel truck for less than 20 gallons. Had to take my fuel cans in our little cart a mile down the road to the local station and it was in a less desirable location. Glad I carried.

Most people will never need a gun, but same as a liferaft, if you need one and don't have one, well it's your bad.

As for the "let's restrict free will" crowd. If you are such a dumbass drunk as get on my boat and act in a threatening manner and get shot. Well that may be your negligence, chances are you will eventually fall off the dock and drown sooner or later anyway.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:05   #79
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Re: Gun Question

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Originally Posted by Joe from ny View Post
That is why you should never keep a gun ready for use without one in the chamber, and make sure the safety is OFF. Most police sidearms dont have safety's, you might have it on when you need to shoot and get yourself killed.


This is very poor safety protocol, unless you are actually wearing the weapon at all times. Even then I practice the Israeli Draw. Safety first.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:06   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
It is unfortunate that a thread on tools has drifted into tactics and included so many misconceptions. Here are the facts that anyone can verify. 1. Lawful gun owners are at least 3x LESS likely to commit ANY kind of crime whatsoever, than the general public. Look up the stats on FL concealed carry permit holders. Educated yourself. 2. It is dishonest to equate the ability to use lethal force with the desire or the will to do so. NO ONE wants to kill ANYONE for taking their $500 chartplotter. Ethics aside, doing so instantly transports you into the criminal justice system. Everyone who owns a firearm understands what that means. 3. NO, you do not need to be a Navy SEAL to hit a moving target at sea. People in the Keys do this all the time for fun. It is much cheaper than going to the one or two ranges in the Keys. On any given day, you can go to ANY shooting range in the country and see someone putting 5 rounds inside 1-2 inches from 50ft....pistol, freehand. Many can easily keep 5 rounds inside 4 inches from 25 yards, pistol, freehand, without even trying. A levergun can put 5 rounds inside one inch at 100 yards. Firepower is fine, accuracy is final. 4. Many who are trolling here confuse tools and tactics. There is a big difference and you need to have both. This thread began as a question regarding the TOOL. Tactics are a very different thing. This is amply demonstrated by Blake...right tool...wrong tactic. 5. What do you need a rifle for? Because nothing else can keep a boat of bad guys away 300 yards. THAT is a tactic. 6. The guy with a knife is not there to kill you. He is there to steal your stuff. He is defeated (meaning you can protect your LIFE) by a locked companionway. 7. Everyone must decide for themselves. However, for most, a firearm is not used to protect your stuff...it is used to protect your life. The choice to carry one is the same choice one makes to carry a life raft. Low probability, high consequence event. Cost/benefit. For under $1000, you could have a hand gun and long gun and be covered out to 300 yards. 8. Prevention is even more important, if you carry a weapon. If an armed intruder has broken into and is inside your cabin in the middle of the night, you are in the worst possible scenario. If you hear and are awake, and ready BEFORE someone breaks into your cabin...you can then be in a tactically superior situation than the bad guy is. 9. To the OP...carrying a weapon is fine...but well before you do...you need to give considerable thought to how and when you would employ it. Never brandish a weapon. A weapon is a tool, taken out and used when there is no other choice to protect your life or the life of a loved one. As a responsible gun owner, I am very certain you understand that...even if most posting here do not. OK - you can all go back to your normal banter. Best J
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:14   #81
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:15   #82
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Re: Gun Question

A Seecamp in .380 is about the most concealable you will find. Stainless too. Keep it in your shirt pocket, or even in a coffee cup in the cupboard.



Small pocket pistol comparison.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:30   #83
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Re: Gun Question

Don't just look at the gun look at the ammo. You can get 12 ga dragons breath turning your 12 ga into a 100 yd flame thrower. If you set them on fire they usually spend their time fighting the fire not a fire fight. The 762 x 39 AK ammo can be had in tracer and armor piercing incendiary capable of taking out a diesel or outboard. One thing with the AK is the ammo can usually be found anywhere around the world and with a 30 shot clip everyone knows what it is and will usually think twice so outside of show it might never be used. I like to think of it as making friends if their boat is sinking or burning they usually want to be friends with you.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:33   #84
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Re: Gun Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe from ny View Post
That is why you should never keep a gun ready for use without one in the chamber, and make sure the safety is OFF. Most police sidearms dont have safety's, you might have it on when you need to shoot and get yourself killed.
No, no, no, never ever with a shotgun. Many don't know that a shotgun with one in the chamber can fire on it's own if dropped. Not a good set up or feature on a boat that's always in motion, or a gun at rest that you plan to grab and go quickly.

This explains why police need to rack the shotgun as they exit the cruiser, because it's being stored without one in the chamber in case of impact to prevent an accidental discharge of the weapon.

If you drop it with ammo in the chamber, it can go off even with the safety on I believe... Unlike revolvers and most semi auto rifles.
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:27   #85
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Re: Gun Question

Here's a good video by Mike Mah on choosing the right weapon for an elderly person and what needs to be considered:

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Old 18-11-2013, 09:55   #86
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My .380 has no safety, just a long draw double action, a I would not carry it in a pocket or a pocket holster. I just don't like the idea of stuff floating around your pocket with a charged firearm.

I use a bulldog belt holster, looks like a PDA or large cellphone case and available in an assortment of colors to match your outfit.
$16 on Amazon.
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Old 18-11-2013, 10:10   #87
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Re: Gun Question

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also keeps others from anchoring near you
We have two cats. One of them would probably think, (Oh GOODY ! Someone to pet me ! )
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Old 18-11-2013, 10:38   #88
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Re: Gun Question

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This post wins the thread
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But the same strategy the anti-gun folks always use on any thread about
guns, and or personal protection devices will succeed in this thread being
closed.

I truly admire those that ignore the hate baiters.

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Although I favor a sub-compact 9mm for CC(only because I didn't know of the Kimber sub-compact 45's when I purchased the 9mm), I believe I would choose a Model 36 S&W 38 for your gal, and this for you The SUPER-SHORTY 12-gauge shotgun. If you can get one !

Pricey but IMHO well worth it, and resale value is very good.
One can find good prices on used S&W 38's, probably not on the Serbu.

Shooting at bottles, other trash, fish, and turtles from the back of a moving boat is very entertaining. Turtle soup is delicious...
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Old 18-11-2013, 10:39   #89
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Re: Gun Question

I say a short pump shotgun. I assume you are wanting to be secure on your vessel, I would also have a handgun in a handy spot.
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Old 18-11-2013, 12:13   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athene View Post
They should try another experiment. Come back from a yacht club bar after a few pina coladas too many, step on board the wrong boat in the dark and pray the owner isn't someone who values his privacy more than their life. Let's hope all these pumped up Rambos stay cruising in the USA and leave the rest of the world to civilised cruisers.

I really fail to see what this (and other similar comments) add to the conversation. Just because you have a gun on board doesn't mean you are a "Rambo" who wants to use it.

Back on topic. Not needing to rack the slide, along with five shots of either shotgun or .45 long colt in a gun that is universally legal in the USA makes that Rossi Circuit Judge a pretty ideal boat gun in my view. It's also traditional looking and less likely to draw the wrong kind of attention. I like my Mossberg 500 fine, but I have a full stock and it's a bit large, even with the short home defense barrel. Having a 12 gauge is certainly nice, but I do think that the Rossi .410 would be nice. We have been abroad before and didn't bring a gun and several times would have been more comfortable with one aboard. I wonder what it would be like clearing customs with the .410 (I know that is unrelated to this thread).
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