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Old 28-03-2012, 10:17   #1
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Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Hello All,

I am looking to liveaboard in the NYC area and maintaining a permanent address at the various marinas I have looked at seems to be a bit of a grey area.

Can anyone explain to me why it is apparently not so easy to get a driver's license and have my IRS tax forms delivered to a marina address? They want my money right?

I mean, I understand the transient nature of boats, but shouldn't signing a rental agreement for a marina slip be considered essentially the same thing as signing a lease?

Please help me understand.

Thanks!

Edit: I've been looking on the New Jersey side of the Hudson- Liberty Landing, etc.
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:38   #2
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Have you found it to be a problem? I cant imagine either of them researching what an address location actually is......?
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:58   #3
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

I titled the post 'Grey Area' because I get a different story from different people I talk to. At Liberty Landing it sounds like the marina is on land leased from a state park - hence it can't be used as a permanent address. At other places it's not so clear.

One place we have looked at permits liveaboards, and has a street address but no mail boxes. I am fine with having a PO Box to get my mail. My concern is that if I present the slip rental agreement (lease) to the DMV they are going to tell me the address for the marina is not considered a domicile.

I guess this is really the heart of my concern, how do I establish my boat as my domicile and my marina slip as my permanent address?

As far as "either of them researching what an address location is" is concerned, the USPS has an address database that it uses and is used by others to verify identities and locations of individuals. We live in the information age.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:11   #4
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

I sometimes use the marina address as my address for DMV, etc. I've a post office where the DMV sends renewals. They have never asked for anything proving the address. So far the IRS is ok with the PO Box, as long as they get paid.

Alot of marinas do not except mail for slip holders. So a PO box or commercial box is required. Voting registration can be tricky.

I have not had a real permanent address in eight years. No problems so far...
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:15   #5
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Hello All,

I am looking to liveaboard in the NYC area and maintaining a permanent address at the various marinas I have looked at seems to be a bit of a grey area.

Can anyone explain to me why it is apparently not so easy to get a driver's license and have my IRS tax forms delivered to a marina address? They want my money right?

I mean, I understand the transient nature of boats, but shouldn't signing a rental agreement for a marina slip be considered essentially the same thing as signing a lease?

Please help me understand.

Thanks!

Edit: I've been looking on the New Jersey side of the Hudson- Liberty Landing, etc.
I can't understand why you would have a problem (you are trying for a NJ address - not NY?)
And tweak the address to look home like.
always use apartment instead of suite/slip/po/# etc...
and when using home as a business change apartment to suite - off course...
Postal guys are good!
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:22   #6
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

It is possible it is not a problem, I'm just a cross my "T"s and dot my "i"s kinda guy. To help explain a bit about why I am concerned in the first place I link below to a separate but sort of related thread elsewhere-

Joe Was Arrested

It's a bit of a convoluted thread but I think someone in there mentions the issue of a marina address.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:26   #7
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

You don't want to use a PO box you want a commercial maildrop. Your address will look like an apartment at that address. 123 Saltwater Lane #25. And..... UPS and Fedex will deliver your parts.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:36   #8
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

I don't want to get packages. I want to have a valid drivers license and pay my taxes like a responsible citizen in full compliance of the law.

If I could call the DMV and talk to a real person and get an answer I would. Unfortunately it's not real super convenient for me to hoof it out to a DMV in New Jersey to get answers in person either.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:45   #9
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

The OP is absolutely right that this is a huge gray area and it will get closer to black before it gets better. In some Canadian jurisdictions when you apply for a D/L they compare the address you give against some database that identifies whether it is a residential or commercial address. It better come up residential or you won't be able to complete the license application. My sense is that the US is not as e-connected YET but you will get there.

The Escapees organization has been dealing with this type of issues for many years now. The OP might want to contact them for advice and assistance but I think the reality is that fading into the woodwork with the kind of nomadic existence that cruisers have been able to enjoy will get increasingly difficult. If you're prepared to give up health care, drivers license and voting rights then you can likely drop off the electronic grid altogether but if you want to retain those connections then its only going to get harder with time. Sorry if you don't like that advice - personally I don't like it either - but that doesn't change its accuracy.
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Old 28-03-2012, 13:09   #10
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Living aboard fulltime for the last 10 years, and never had a problem with marina address as legal address for drivers license, opening bank accts, etc. Our mailing address is a mail forwarding service - which did come up as a "problem" for opening a new bank acct. We used the marina address there on the official forms, but had the mail forwarding service address printed on our checks.
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Old 28-03-2012, 13:18   #11
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking the information technologies used by Canada to search it's address databases probably originated in the US, not the other way around. I live in NYC, trust me it's pretty saturated with e-connectivity around here.

Regardless, I don't want to fall off the grid. I just want to live on my boat and have drivers license. The New Jersey MVA requires a signed lease as proof of residency.

I wonder if anyone has taken a "Dockage Agreement" provided by a marina management company to the New Jersey MVA and have had them accept this document as a proof of residency?
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Old 28-03-2012, 14:35   #12
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Over forty years of living aboard we have used marina addresses, US post office boxes, a cooperating friend's address, but nothing has been as convenient as a commercial PMB as recommended by Vyndance II. I have the same address on my Driver's License, Passport, IRS papers, Voter's registration.....everything and I do not need to change anything when I cruise to new places or stay at different marinas.
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Old 28-03-2012, 15:02   #13
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

I am very surprised to hear you have used a PMB for voter registration, what state are you in? I did not know they sent census takers to PMBs to interview the residents who live there. I have heard they go to marinas from another forum.

Either way, a PMB does nothing to satisfy the New Jersey MVA, they require a residential lease as proof of residency. I'm not planning on going cruising to distant shores, I want to liveaboard in one location.
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Old 28-03-2012, 16:06   #14
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
I am very surprised to hear you have used a PMB for voter registration, what state are you in? I did not know they sent census takers to PMBs to interview the residents who live there. I have heard they go to marinas from another forum.

Either way, a PMB does nothing to satisfy the New Jersey MVA, they require a residential lease as proof of residency. I'm not planning on going cruising to distant shores, I want to liveaboard in one location.
I used the term PMB as that is what the US Postal Service describes as my mail receipt location with St. Brendans Isle in Green Cove Springs, Florida. This service allows the establishment of residency while you may be cruising or not cruising at any location in or out of the US. At the last time I heard, there were more than three thousand people sharing my address and without a physical tie to the local community in Clay County, Florida. I'll be in New York and Maine for much of this year, but I won't be changing my address. St Brendan's Isle will provide you contact with the Census Bureau at your discretion. If you have a particular reason to not be a Florida resident, then this service would not suit you; however, I've never had a problem using my Florida driver's license in other states, but then I only rent cars instead of owning them. ...one size doesn't fit all!
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Old 28-03-2012, 16:23   #15
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Re: Grey Area - Permanent Address?

Here is the problem he is facing. NJ now requires you to prove your valid address in addition to proving your ID in order to get a license. He needs one of these forms of proof of his address from the NJ website. I don't believe a PMB will cut it. All states are moving towards this, some more rapidly than others.

Quote:
Proof of Address (at least one)

Utility or credit card bill showing your name at current address, issued within the last 90 days
A property tax bill, statement, or receipt within the last year
Any letter or correspondence (including tax bills) received from the IRS or state tax office in the last year
High school or college report card or transcript within past 2 years (must contain address)
Original lease or rental agreement with your name listed as the lessee or renter
First-class mail from any government agency within 6 months
Checking or savings account statement (bank or credit union) within 60 days
Parent/guardian certification (if under 18 years old) that verifies you are living with a parent/guardian
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