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Old 25-10-2019, 03:46   #76
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Here is an interesting data set. Just found it. It’s from the Global Footprint people. May be of some use. I post more as I find them if you don’t mind.

Dataset | SDGs
Looks like 3 choicers. Aleutian Islands, Kamcatcha , or Gobi desert
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Old 25-10-2019, 04:53   #77
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

reading along and appreciating the honesty of so many here... i'd like to add another dimension here, if i may...

i watched a Ted Talk the other day about the prospect of colonising Mars. It may be hogwash, but it sent out a few messages loud and clear.

the guy speaking sells the idea of colonising Mars to his audience with the let's-land-the-man-on-the-moon way, i.e. with hope of rising to the challenge. he says that it has to happen so that humans can survive ... because "we're incredibly vulnerable to the whims of our own galaxy...". he suggests an asteroid could hit us, so we need to get beyond the "home-planet"

So.... an asteroid is our biggest problem at hand?

if this is our biggest problem, one wouldn't have to evoke the responsibility of the humans to the planet; one wouldn't have to mention what will become of all the wildlife and diversity on our planet (while her fruits go to the expensive effort of making an inhabitable planet, habitable). no mention of the future of the dolphin or the tern or groundhog...

note how the Asteroid scenario allows this speaker to establish how only humans will survive, (ahem) some humans will survive...


he also spells out how complicated it would be but also how NASA has miraculously figured this out so that it is ALL possible in the very near future

and he reveals that very rich private companies (as opposed to governments) are the ones taking the lead on this. it is already in the works... the money is there to pull it off, etc....

(i do admit the, while watching the talk, i was thinking about that film with Jude Law called Welcome to Gattaca...)

In any case, at the end of the talk, everyone was clapping away, happy as bumblebees in a bed of clover. folks felt safe... and i was appaulled.


SERIOUSLY, is it right that there are those (filthy rich) who can walk away from our planet's mess feeling they have the right to put their money where they want?


Look at us, we are all thinking about where to go... how to survive... what to do to protect our loved ones... how to protect ourselves .... We are squirming while these folks have already established financial structures (banks and whatnot) on Mars.

check out the video:


https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_pe...ve?language=fr


THANKS FOR THAT. RANT OVER.
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Old 25-10-2019, 05:26   #78
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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...SERIOUSLY, is it right that there are those (filthy rich) who can walk away from our planet's mess feeling they have the right to put their money where they want?
Sadly, nothing new about this. In any SHTF scenario, it is almost always the poor that suffer the most.

And speaking of suffering, I just came across this recent UN report that says "68% of the world population projected to live in urban areas by 2050.” This is up from the current 55%.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/...prospects.html
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Old 25-10-2019, 05:49   #79
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Sadly, nothing new about this. In any SHTF scenario, it is almost always the poor that suffer the most.

And speaking of suffering, I just came across this recent UN report that says "68% of the world population projected to live in urban areas by 2050.” This is up from the current 55%.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/...prospects.html
Yer, but if I was filthy rich I would take advantage of my position to live, protect my friends and family and set up the best life I could, I think most of us would.
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Old 25-10-2019, 06:04   #80
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Sadly, nothing new about this. In any SHTF scenario, it is almost always the poor that suffer the most.

And speaking of suffering, I just came across this recent UN report that says "68% of the world population projected to live in urban areas by 2050.” This is up from the current 55%.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/...prospects.html


Mike, yes, when it comes to humans, it seems that is not really about 'survival of the fittest' but 'survival of the devious'. this whole planet-down-the-tubes thing is such a bad dream...

can we not say or do anything? No, perhaps not. the optimist in me doesn't like this answer.... in that case, i'd like to ask all those who place their bets on Mars to NOT come back. i want to tell them they can make their Star Wars sequels without us...

in response to what you wrote earlier: i think your out-of-the-way-Newfoundland-community plan is a pretty good one. humans can and do cooperate, especially in hostile environments. and we definitely survive and thrive in communities. when folks from the US come pouring in, they can donate their guns to be melted down and made into plows and gardening trowels.... i can imagine you overseeing this!

as for this UN report, i cannot see how any dense urban area would be a good place to be when SHTF... as there is a great chance of small communities completing for resources and too little resources on site.

as a side note, for those who will take to the seas..... if things DO get real bad out there, let's fly a "CF-friendship" burgee flag and/or C and F flags. i'll surely have coffee to trade (been stocking up). and whatever you do, don't shoot!





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Old 25-10-2019, 06:47   #81
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Yer, but if I was filthy rich I would take advantage of my position to live, protect my friends and family and set up the best life I could, I think most of us would.
Of course we would — I certainly would.

Most of us here are filthy rich as compared to the global average. It’s why most of us have some options when the SHTF. Most people around the world have no easy options.

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Mike, yes, when it comes to humans, it seems that is not really about 'survival of the fittest' but 'survival of the devious'. this whole planet-down-the-tubes thing is such a bad dream...
Actually, being devious is a sound evolutionary strategy .

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can we not say or do anything? No, perhaps not. the optimist in me doesn't like this answer.... in that case, i'd like to ask all those who place their bets on Mars to NOT come back. i want to tell them they can make their Star Wars sequels without us...
Wolf, I didn’t watch the TED talk, but I think I understand the gist of the argument. The only inherent purpose of any species is to propagate its genes. The point the speaker was likely making is that all of homo sapiens’ genetic eggs are in, or on, one basket right now: Earth.

The Universe is a hostile place. One moderate sized comet comes our way and we’re done. Getting some of our genes off this blue marble increases the chances that homo sapiens will go on. This is not something I personally care about (having chosen not to have children), but I recognize it is a primary driver for most.

But I completely agree, the Mars-colony notion is a double-edged sword. It raises all the serious considerations you (and I) have about who will actually benefit. And whether expending all these resources on a massive project could be better spent improving the lives of people here. I don’t have an easy answer for this.

Besides, humans have always looked to the horizon. For good AND ill, our species has always sought to discover what was over the next hill. Mars is the next frontier.

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in response to what you wrote earlier: i think your out-of-the-way-Newfoundland-community plan is a pretty good one. humans can and do cooperate, especially in hostile environments. and we definitely survive and thrive in communities. when folks from the US come pouring in, they can donate their guns to be melted down and made into plows and gardening trowels.... i can imagine you overseeing this!
I think so. Humanity has been so successful on this planet in large part due to our ability to work as a collective. We are not just pack animals, we’re more like hives. This is why in any serious SHTF scenario, those who will do the best are those in strong, self-sufficient communities. The lone wolf clutching his AK-47, or indeed sailing around on her own, will soon succumb.

But we might not want to melt down all those guns. Newfoundland is also home to polar bears. They’ll want to survive just as much as we do, and to them humans probably look like tasty snacks .

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as for this UN report, i cannot see how any dense urban area would be a good place to be when SHTF... as there is a great chance of small communities completing for resources and too little resources on site.
Completely agree. As I say, the number one thing I would do if the SHTF is to get far away from any urban areas. Cities, even small ones, are such fragile creations which rely very heavily on Just-In-Time delivery of resources and expelling of effluents. There is little resilience in these systems.

And yet, more and more of our global population is packing into ever bigger of these death traps. If the SHTF, and you live in a big city, run.
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Old 25-10-2019, 07:23   #82
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Of course we would — I certainly would.

Most of us here are filthy rich as compared to the global average. It’s why most of us have some options when the SHTF. Most people around the world have no easy options.
....

And yet, more and more of our global population is packing into ever bigger of these death traps. If the SHTF, and you live in a big city, run.
It is always interesting to discuss with you, Mike!

Have you heard of the Collapsologie movement in France?

it is not translated into English on wiki, but is growing over here...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapsologie

in sum, lots of people (many young couples) are moving out of the cities, buying out-of-the way plots, and setting up PermaCulture (Permanent Agriculture - a self-sustaining approach to gardening that uses Nature's own recipes to optimise - no pesticides, etc.)

i've read a bit about it and watched a few talks.... my feeling is that it is fantastic, just fantastic that young couples are opting out of the rat race (Paris has gone mad it seems), and are learning about agriculture, self-reliance and using tools. they are getting off the grid in every way possible and are doing it as green-kindly as possible. the know-how they are gaining is precious.

yet, in terms of "survivable locations" we can only hope that they are picking spots that will be spared in the event of .... among the different SHTF scenarios in France, there is also one that involves these huge, ageing nuclear reactors...

as some here have already stated, for the moment it might be best to focus NOT on finding possible survivable locations, as there is no telling where the S will HTF first..., but on gaining know-how, knowledge and skills, that could be useful ...



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Old 25-10-2019, 07:30   #83
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Sadly, nothing new about this. In any SHTF scenario, it is almost always the poor that suffer the most.

And speaking of suffering, I just came across this recent UN report that says "68% of the world population projected to live in urban areas by 2050.” This is up from the current 55%.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/...prospects.html
don't you know that's exactly what the governments want . If everyone is in cities they are easier to control.
Definitely easier to manipulate to the whims of those in power ( just look at California )
they are shutting off the power to " protect " people .
Guess all those electric cars they were pushing everyone into are not really that great of a thing now are they.
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Old 25-10-2019, 08:10   #84
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

Coffee no one said how we survive without coffee
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Old 25-10-2019, 08:11   #85
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

A good example in the difference in being in a big city and a rural area or small city, when things go south, is to compare the aftermath of Katrina between New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

The differences were stark, to say the very least. Most of the people in New Orleans who died, died after the disaster was over. I was in federal law enforcement and traveled and worked in both places, and a large amount of the deaths in New Orleans were homicides.

So many in fact, (about a fourth) that the Orleans Parish coroner was instructed to stop classifying the deaths as to actual cause, and to substitute "Katrina related" whether you drowned, died of dehydration, or were shot to death.

Things were relatively benign in Mississippi, although the actual damage was much worse.

Katrina convinced me that a big city is not where you want to be when the thin veneer of civilization wears away. Try to imagine dead bodies, lying unrecovered, for three to four weeks, in plain sight. That's how bad things got there.
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Old 25-10-2019, 08:25   #86
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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It is always interesting to discuss with you, Mike!

Have you heard of the Collapsologie movement in France?

it is not translated into English on wiki, but is growing over here...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapsologie

in sum, lots of people (many young couples) are moving out of the cities, buying out-of-the way plots, and setting up PermaCulture (Permanent Agriculture - a self-sustaining approach to gardening that uses Nature's own recipes to optimise - no pesticides, etc.)
I haven’t heard about this. Interesting . Sounds a bit like the 1970s “back to the earth” movement. Many tried. Very few stuck it out for very long (much like Thoreau ). But I don’t say that with any disrespect.

My view is that to avoid many (not all) of the SHTF scenarios, the best thing we in the rich countries can do is learn to live smaller — to live with less. Won’t help much if/when the comet hits or when the NA west coast slides away, but many of our “shyte” scenarios are predicated on high and unequal resource usage. Using less is one way we can at least begin to address some of these issues. And just to make this slightly relevant to CF, going cruising is one possible way to use less.

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don't you know that's exactly what the governments want . If everyone is in cities they are easier to control.
Definitely easier to manipulate to the whims of those in power ( just look at California )
they are shutting off the power to " protect " people .
Guess all those electric cars they were pushing everyone into are not really that great of a thing now are they.
You give governments way too much credibility. I don’t think most know how to tie their own proverbial shoelaces , let alone purposely orchestrate mass movements into cities .

But I do think you’re right about the systemic shifts which are driving people into these cattle barns called cities. It’s been going on a long time, starting perhaps with the enclosure movement in England which was designed, in part, to create a desperate and cheap workforce for the developing Industrial Revolution.

And you’re right, it is far easier to control people once you’ve made them reliant on external supports.
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Old 25-10-2019, 08:53   #87
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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A good example in the difference in being in a big city and a rural area or small city, when things go south, is to compare the aftermath of Katrina between New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

The differences were stark, to say the very least. Most of the people in New Orleans who died, died after the disaster was over. I was in federal law enforcement and traveled and worked in both places, and a large amount of the deaths in New Orleans were homicides.

So many in fact, (about a fourth) that the Orleans Parish coroner was instructed to stop classifying the deaths as to actual cause, and to substitute "Katrina related" whether you drowned, died of dehydration, or were shot to death.

Things were relatively benign in Mississippi, although the actual damage was much worse.

Katrina convinced me that a big city is not where you want to be when the thin veneer of civilization wears away. Try to imagine dead bodies, lying unrecovered, for three to four weeks, in plain sight. That's how bad things got there.

Spot on! For me here in NYC, I will clearly have to leave for a more favorable place. Others will need a different strategy. The nature of the disaster will also affect how one deals with it. An extended power outage is likely to be very different than a major tropical cyclone which is very different than a tsunami, etc.
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Old 25-10-2019, 10:31   #88
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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Here's a few more:

NZ's Chatham Islands; Stewart Island; Auckland Islands.

Oz: Port Davey, Tasmania

Pacific: Pitcairn and Robinson Island. Latter I believe has no water, so you'd need to construct a reservoir and catch rainwater (TIP: An above ground swimming pool packs down really small, and relatively light, for its capacity. My uncle used one as their primary water reservoir in the Seventies on a north-coast commune. 4' deep but held like 25K litres.)

Any more?
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Old 25-10-2019, 10:32   #89
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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where are you out of ? I'm in railway marina across from drydock 8 at PSNS
Hi Newhaul,

We are wintering in Kingston. We did the same last year and will again next year. We really like it here.

Let me know if you ever pop over - we can go to the Kingston Ale House
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Old 25-10-2019, 10:52   #90
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Re: Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

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I haven’t heard about this. Interesting . Sounds a bit like the 1970s “back to the earth” movement. Many tried. Very few stuck it out for very long (much like Thoreau ). But I don’t say that with any disrespect.

I did the permaculture thing when I was living in Hawai'i. The problem I ran into was that it was inefficient financially as long as the "just in time" inventory thing is working. We had an excellent local outside market for fruits and vegetables. While not strict permaculture followers, the quality of the produce was still high. And I just couldn't produce the variety at what they were able to sell it at.



I'm glad I did it as the knowledge learned about how to properly cultivate your soil to grow your own food was invaluable.



I've been in the "getting smaller" crowd for a long time but at some point you can get so small that you're just making life harder on yourself for no real reason. There's a happy medium.
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