Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Singularity

Population centers are sort of a prerequisite for SHTF scenarios...otherwise cataclysmic events are just localized to a few people who had a very bad day...

Tell that to the victims of the Chicxulub asteroid impact (a true global catastrophe / SHTF event), that brought the age of dinosaurs to an abrupt end, wiping out the vast majority of the beasts,along with about three-quarters of all life on Earth.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Singularity

Population centers are sort of a prerequisite for SHTF scenarios...otherwise cataclysmic events are just localized to a few people who had a very bad day.
Otherwise it's not prudent to put all of one's eggs in one basket, and if you're a farmer you probably don't like your cattle to collect under the only tree in a pasture during an electric storm.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are a prerequisite. There are plenty of SHTF scenarios which will be very bad, no matter the population density. But I take your point; many are either dependent on high populations, or are made much worse.

Possibly more to the point, urban areas will be hard places to be in the aftermath of many SHTF scenarios. With their high reliance on just-in-time resource delivery (food, water, power, fuel), and their equal dependence on JIT effluent removals (garbage, sewage, water), dense urban can quickly become death traps for those stuck there.

[Ghostrider421]

Originally Posted by newhaul

you would think so till you look at what has happened just this year due to weather conditions. Now throw in loss on the mains power grid for the continent and your really screwed.

ice age farmer :: grand solar minimum crop loss map

one Carrington event away
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Don't forget the SAA
https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/r...misc_saad.html

[EngNate]

OK, here's a little nook in my backyard, it's right close by but way out of the way. And you can go there in your boat, and that will be the only way to get there if SHTF. Ocean Falls, BC. Once a thriving mill town, it now has about a dozen year round residents, as many as 100 in summer. It's 40-something miles by water to the nearest road network, and that place is 17 hours' drive from Vancouver, mostly through rugged wilderness. One thing it has going for it is electric power, a hydroelectric plant that serves about 300 customers on a grid that is completely isolated. It's owned by Boralex, a green energy outfit that has a number of wind farms and a couple hydro sites. Customers in the town buy their power directly while the rest are served via BC Hydro and about 30 miles of transmission line. The plant sports 5 original Pelton turbines driving General Electric generators, and these have been in service since 1913. The controls are modern electronics, but old school, operated by an engineer on site, not over the internet. The capacity is twice the current peak demand. The town also has a practically unlimited supply of excellent clean water from a lake atop a granite dome. Isolation from chaos, hydroponics, electric boat for fishing... There's cheap real estate, pretty dilapidated but probably in better shape than the cities when shtf...

[Buzzman]

The only problem with BC is food production in winter....

But probably a good location if you have a ton of supplies to 'last out' an intermediate length shtf scenario.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by EngNate

OK, here's a little nook in my backyard, it's right close by but way out of the way. And you can go there in your boat, and that will be the only way to get there if SHTF. Ocean Falls, BC. Once a thriving mill town, it now has about a dozen year round residents, as many as 100 in summer. It's 40-something miles by water to the nearest road network, and that place is 17 hours' drive from Vancouver, mostly through rugged wilderness. One thing it has going for it is electric power, a hydroelectric plant that serves about 300 customers on a grid that is completely isolated. It's owned by Boralex, a green energy outfit that has a number of wind farms and a couple hydro sites. Customers in the town buy their power directly while the rest are served via BC Hydro and about 30 miles of transmission line. The plant sports 5 original Pelton turbines driving General Electric generators, and these have been in service since 1913. The controls are modern electronics, but old school, operated by an engineer on site, not over the internet. The capacity is twice the current peak demand. The town also has a practically unlimited supply of excellent clean water from a lake atop a granite dome. Isolation from chaos, hydroponics, electric boat for fishing... There's cheap real estate, pretty dilapidated but probably in better shape than the cities when shtf...

At first I didn't know why you would share this with us all; it seems like a perfect getaway. Wouldn't you keep it a secret?

But maybe you really think the SHTF isn't going to happen, and meanwhile you need some new blood in Ocean Falls?

Me? I'd love that place. I have been in BC many times, by boat. I think that you have a treasure there (especial for ducks).

Keep your eyes out for a dark blue sloop with some moss growing on the deck, that'll be me.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

The only problem with BC is food production in winter....

But probably a good location if you have a ton of supplies to 'last out' an intermediate length shtf scenario.

the ocean shall provide

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

The only problem with BC is food production in winter....

But probably a good location if you have a ton of supplies to 'last out' an intermediate length shtf scenario.

No, that part of BC is great for food production, the winters are more moderate than some, and there are always fish and seafood. The forests support berries and other foods. A well drained plot of land can grow potatoes. Roots are edible.

The indians had such bounty that they became wonderful artists in their spare time. They held potlatches in which they gave away their entire fortune in order to compel the recipient to give away more the next year.

I see this part of the world to be a good shelter if SHTF, except that too many people might go there.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No, that part of BC is great for food production, the winters are more moderate than some, and there are always fish and seafood. The forests support berries and other foods. A well drained plot of land can grow potatoes. Roots are edible.

The indians had such bounty that they became wonderful artists in their spare time. They held potlatches in which they gave away their entire fortune in order to compel the recipient to give away more the next year.

I see this part of the world to be a good shelter if SHTF, except that too many people might go there.

fred he is right there would be no food grown in winter .

a bad place to go in a SHTF situation .

Ever see the Stephfen Ulysses there stop on in I'm sure Steve will be along as well

[roland stockham]

Quite an interestin thread but just found myself wondering whether any of you are activly supporting effors to stop tshf? Or to build a sufficiently strong group to survive it. I moved 10 years ago to a community that stands a better chance than most of surviving and am helping buld capacity and resources. The plus is that I now have a better, healthier and less stressful life as well. All it takes to stop all the doomsday senarios is for poeple to work together to look after there communities and make them better places to live. Continuing the competative urban lifestyle while hoping to run away to some remote eden when you have failed to build a survivable community where you are strikes me as rarther optomistic at best.

[Buzzman]

Roland, where is your community located, so we know where to go when the SHTF...???

Therein lies the dilemma you have incautiously approached from the other end of the scale.

It's not that none of us are 'adding value' to our local communities, it's just that any that create 'intentional communities' that eschew the trappings of the 21st Century are likely to be the first over-run by the 'mob' when the SHTF.

There's a reason Iron Age communities had stockaded walls around their villages and or fields.

There will always be those who choose to thrive off other's misery, and everyone else will need to defend themselves from them.

Uh, oh! We're back to guns again...!!!!

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

. All it takes to stop all the doomsday senarios is for poeple to work together to look after there communities and make them better places to live. .

actually that won't do anything toward preventing any actually real SHTF situations . It does and will mitigate some of the worst effects .

An aside yes the northern part of the Vancouver on the inside is a good location .

[Ibetitsthisway]

Very interesting thread ... but to my humble opinion.. wrong track for many here....

My grandma is 100 years old next year. She was 24 when ww2 ended.
My Mum was 1 year old.

Grandma did NOT join any kind of Group or community when the russians Rolled over germany ... raping and Plundering (no offence taken...we started this mess...)
Why would she? No community was a match for Russian soldiers...
No...she Walked allone...with my baby mother...through the countryside and begged for food when reaching a Farm.

She was the only one Who survived ...from a family of 9!

......


Else...

Think about movies like waterworld.
People are trying to make a living in Those.new small swimming cities.
None of them is Doing well... always there is one guy Who wants to be king and be better than the rest.

The one Who is off best is the loner... the Smart guy..the guy with competences Who does not share or compromise with a community.

I Think in the Case of total Desaster you are better off being smarter than other and make your way allone...

Try to have thinks you can Trade.
Meet people for a Trade...and then Walker away allone again.

[Seacucumber]

Pacific North West would be my choice.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Seacucumber

Pacific North West would be my choice.

really not a good place to go .
There is the cascadia fault line , there is the Juan de fuca fault line both just offshore.
In all just in the Puget sound there are about 300 different faults , we also have 2 active and 4 dormant volcanoes within a 200 mile radius of Seattle.
Definitely not a good place to go in a bad scenario .

:whistli ng: