Gay life: cruising and aboard a ship

[gaysailorbill]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Nope, but I bet that being gay on boat there is pretty much like being gay there on land. And that was my only point.

BTW - I'm sure is lots of places we could replace being gay to a different religion and get the same result.

Regarding the religion thing...

No. You're wrong. With the exception of Jews in Islamic countries and Muslims in Israel and in certain inland states of India, having a certain religion same or different from the landlubbers is either not a big deal or culturally inappropriate to discriminate and written into most constitutions that discrimination is illegal on religious terms. (Spare me the flare of anti Islam sentiment in the US and the flare of anti Semitism in France. There will unfortunately always be these squabbles. But as a rule it is still LEGAL to discriminate on he basis of homosexuality in most countries around the world... Including the US and Europe. And certainly in most other places.

So NO. It is not the same.

I'll come to the black issue in a different post.

[scuba0_1]

Originally Posted by witzgall

It seems that some are saying, You are fine, just don't flaunt it if you are gay." That would be sensible advice when dealing with the public at large in areas where you don't yet know the culture, but I get the feeling some posters are saying don't flaunt it in MY face. Given those standards, will they be upset if I hold my wife's hand in public, or give her a kiss?"

Chris

The base issue is you believe people won't accept you the way you want to be. Well if there offended why would you want be around them. You can do what ever you want in public with in the law some will be offended some won't. I for instance show pda to my girl friend some like it some don't could care less And dare some one to come up to me and say so. If you have that attitude more well get use to it. And now I know if I raise a rainbow flag and only a few boats will come im buying one now. The peps that come buy will be more fun any way.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[bobbyg4eagle]

Originally Posted by chris95040

wow that was fast.

Didn't notice the OP asking for 'recognition', 'approval', or to be 'treated any different than anyone else.'

And I've seen many threads here that are of the format 'I'm (some group they identify with), anyone else (that group)? Let's talk about stuff from (that group's) perspective.' Much like this one.

But when (some group) is 'diabetic', or 'new to boating', or 'Canadian', I suspect you don't jump on the thread and make a vitriolic post like this.

Not much different than a black man in the 1950's asking about finding a diner that serves blacks around the deep south. Human nature that a small minority of the majority get the feathers ruffled by those that are different and feel safe saying so or taking action. Gays, Blacks, Jews, even women throughout history have felt the brunt of the majority. Wasn't long ago that Women and Blacks couldn't vote in USA and we are one of the more tolerant countries.
OP, I have no experience with sailing lifestyle, but sounds like the majority of sailors are open minded, a small minority will be threatened and many Ports of Call around the world might be not so accepting.
Seems like CF has some smart folk on it, and much to be learnt here.

[gaysailorbill]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I haven't knowingly met any gay cruisers but in my experience, most gay people don't wear signs or other indicators of their sexual preference (gaysailorbill may be an exception) . I would treat gay cruisers like I would treat any cruisers unless they gave me reason to do otherwise. Just like when I'm not cruising.

I worked with a few gay people before I retired but their "gayness" was never a subject of conversation.

Hi there. Just so I'm not misunderstood, the reason for my profile name is not to put straight folk off but rather to open abou lt who I am and make it easy for other gay sailors to identify me... Even if it comes with some risk

[gaysailorbill]

Originally Posted by scuba0_1

The base issue is you believe people won't accept you the way you want to be. Well if there offended why would you want be around them. You can do what ever you want in public with in the law some will be offended some won't. I for instance show pda to my girl friend some like it some don't could care less And dare some one to come up to me and say so. If you have that attitude more well get use to it. And now I know if I raise a rainbow flag and only a few boats will come im buying one now. The peps that come buy will be more fun any way.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Actually this is precisely my attitude.

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=gaysailorbill;1787869

But you are exactly right. That's why it would be great to be able to ask sailing oriented questions that include gays issues, some of which are relevant and some of which are not to cruising life, on this forum.


So it would be great to have a discussion about gay sailing stuff here,[/QUOTE]

Since I still don't understand what the gay sailing questions are why don't you tell us what you feel they are? And don't post gay general questions because that isn't this forum, this is a boating forum.

Because currently this seems to me to .................... (I could care less if someone is gay, so I decide to just not post what I'm thinking )

[NoQuarter79]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Since I still don't understand what the gay sailing questions are why don't you tell us what you feel they are? And don't post gay general questions because that isn't this forum, this is a boating forum.

Because currently this seems to me to .................... (I could care less if someone is gay, so I decide to just not post what I'm thinking )

I think the issue was stated plenty of times. When you're prohibited to travel certain places because it's illegal to be yourself, I would consider that an issue that should be addressed, and I can easily see why someone would ask for advice regarding the subject.

[Canibul]

I'm with Sailorboy on this one. And forget the immedite accusations that I'm homophobic or something. That's rubbish. But lets say two boats sail into the marina at the same time. Are we going to look at one and say "Oh look, Claude, A GAY sailboat in the marina!!"
no. not unless the people on that boat are doing something to tell us what their sexual preference is.

Are you planning to sail around in drag proclaiming how right you are and how much presecution you might get somewhere? Or are you going to sail your boat, and talk about sailing things and buy beer with other sailors and just generally keep your sexual proclivities between you and your significant other. That's what normal people do. How can you reasonably expect to be treated the same way as average people while constantly reminding us that you're not like us?

I mean, I've been essentially living at a transient marina now for most days the past two years. We get fifty, sixty cruisers coming through here a season, many of them come back through. You know, I don't think I have ever once heard a conversation about what a guy and his wife or girlfriend are doing in their boat when they're in their boat.

Why do you feel the need to make YOUR private activities public? Why do I have to know that you're gay? I don't care if you are or not. I'm not. You are. So? Do you want me to have this mental image of you for some reason? Why not just act like a cruiser? You know, drink beer, tell lies, borrow tools?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

I think the issue was stated plenty of times. When you're prohibited to travel certain places because it's illegal to be yourself, I would consider that an issue that should be addressed, and I can easily see why someone would ask for advice regarding the subject.

That's NOT a gay SAILOR issue, that's a being gay issue. Far as sailing goes that is just like any other dangerous place, you don't go there.

[ChrisTinaBruce]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

...a few years back, there was a transexual lady who suffered some discrimination but also made a lot of friends. The wife and I befriended her and helped her out with her boat on occasion and we still bump into her now and again. To me, it seemed the younger people in the yard weren't really that concerned whilst some of the older were definitely discriminatory.

As a transgender female (preferred term by our community over transexual) I would agree completely with Reefmagent. Most people under 30 do not discriminate based on sex, race or gender but on behavior. Which is how it should be.

I am new to the sailing community and appreciate all the insight provided in the forum. If I can be of any assistance in educating about transgender issues please ask.

[Stu Jackson]

This post answers the questions about what questions do you have. Might well have been a better OP.

You also say: There are countless others.

What we've experienced, on this and other boating forums is that there are "countless" other posts that ask vague and generalized questions.

The answers are always: can you be more specific; your question doesn't include enough information for us to help you; without knowing the size of your battery bank we simply can't tell you what size charger to buy.

That kind of specificity is exactly the kind of INPUT anyone needs to answer ANY question, whether boating or not.

And since by basic logic the % of straights to gays on this forum shouldn't be much different than the real world %s, unless one is gay, they would have NO CLUE as to what a "gay question" is. I didn't.

Thanks for clarifying. And if you have more specific questions like these, then I'm sure the answers will be forthcoming because the questions are a lot clearer.

Re: Google. No, I didn't do that search, I just was asking if you had. Not everyone thinks of that as a "resource" for information, for some bizarre reason beyond me. Sorry to hear there's not much out there.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by gaysailorbill

Just to be clear on the kind of question that is gay cruiser oriented which we could not find anywhere...

"If the fishermen in the grenadines see me and my boyfriend kissing on deck in the morning will it cause a problem?"

"Will the immigration official in Jamaica give me a hard time if he thinks I'm gay, because I am an effeminate man."

"The Doyle guide says to get diesel here XX. But when we approached they saw we were a group of gay men due to the rainbow flag flying and they refused to service us. Do you know somewhere we can refuel that won't refuse us."

"The service i got in a boatyard on XX island found out that I was gay and indicated he would do the work but only if I gave him money in the side to keep him from telling the authorities. Should I be worried."

There are countless others.

I would not be able to find thhe answers to these questions on any gay travel forum... And possibly not in this one. Though I would try. And then I'd have to wade through the bull postings from the chattering hordes and maybe find an answer.

Or God forbid I ever wanted to meet other gay cruisers... Then where would I go? (And trust me there is as much difference of opinion on all issues among gay fold as there is among our straight comrades.)

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I'm with Sailorboy on this one. And forget the immedite accusations that I'm homophobic or something. That's rubbish. But lets say two boats sail into the marina at the same time. Are we going to look at one and say "Oh look, Claude, A GAY sailboat in the marina!!"
no. not unless the people on that boat are doing something to tell us what their sexual preference is.

Are you planning to sail around in drag proclaiming how right you are and how much presecution you might get somewhere? Or are you going to sail your boat, and talk about sailing things and buy beer with other sailors and just generally keep your sexual proclivities between you and your significant other. That's what normal people do. How can you reasonably expect to be treated the same way as average people while constantly reminding us that you're not like us?

I mean, I've been essentially living at a transient marina now for most days the past two years. We get fifty, sixty cruisers coming through here a season, many of them come back through. You know, I don't think I have ever once heard a conversation about what a guy and his wife or girlfriend are doing in their boat when they're in their boat.

Why do you feel the need to make YOUR private activities public? Why do I have to know that you're gay? I don't care if you are or not. I'm not. You are. So? Do you want me to have this mental image of you for some reason? Why not just act like a cruiser? You know, drink beer, tell lies, borrow tools?

The "but" brigade is out in full force. "I not against gays, but ..."

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by gaysailorbill

Hi there. Just so I'm not misunderstood, the reason for my profile name is not to put straight folk off but rather to open abou lt who I am and make it easy for other gay sailors to identify me... Even if it comes with some risk

What I find unfathomable about homosexual people, and in particular men, is their almost pathological need to declare/broadcast/noterize/impose their particular sexual proclivities to/on the public. How one conducts oneself in the privacy of one's home, yacht or particularl circle of friends is of no business, concern, or interest to uninvolved others, unless it is pushed in their faces, which seems to be a particular practice by homsexual men. Many/most find the imposition very offensive, no less so than they might find having hetrosexual practices such as S&M, Bondage and other equally extraordinary behaviors imposed upon them. Frankly, if you simply keep your proclivities to yourself you might find that people will relate to/treat you as well as they do any other person. We have, on many occassions been in anchorages with other yachts crewed by two or three men, only, or women, only. What their particular private personal relationships were was of no concern or consideration at all and I can't recall a single case where they were ever questioned or even discussed. We have also been in anchorages, particularly in the BVI, where groups of vacationing homosexual men have carried on on-deck, on the beaches and on a few occassions in some of the bars in such a manner as to offend ones sense of common deciency (some of the public bahaviors in Key West is a good example) as a result of which we decamped for other parts. We/Most don't care how you lead your private life, emphises on "private". Absent that, you create the animous you decry.

Now, if you have something useful to contribute to discussions concering sailing/cruising, do so. If, however, you wish to flog your particular lifestyle do so as well--but on forums oriented for your particular lifestyle.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

That's NOT a gay SAILOR issue, that's a being gay issue. Far as sailing goes that is just like any other dangerous place, you don't go there.

I thought you said you "could care less" [sic], by which I assume you meant "couldn't care less" -- in any case, this seems to matter to you more than you let on!

[Aussiesuede]

1. Would a boat full of Jews wearing Yamaka's on their head be "Throwing their Religion in your Face"?

2. Would a boat full of Christians wearing crosses around their necks be"Throwing their religion in your face"?

3. Would a boat full of gays wearing rainbow bandanas be "Throwing their sexuality in your face"?

4. Would a boat full of women wearing skimpy bikinis be "Throwing their sexuality in your face".

5. Would a boat full of Americans wearing flag shirts be "Throwing their nationality in your face"?

6. Would a boat full of Persians wearing flag shirts be "Throwing their nationality in your face"?



Just when is it acceptable to identify with the minority you're a member of? Or should we instead just never identify our nationality, religion, sexuality, or any other "ality"? As long as folks are consistent in their outrage to these various identifications of their minority associations, then I've no issue with it. But when they pick and choose which to be outraged about and which they are accepting of, well then that's just bigotry in motion. The silly idea that "What's ok to me is the right way for the world to be".

Signed

"Canadian Flag Patch"