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Old 19-01-2015, 09:15   #31
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Re: Forum trolls

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
I come from IT myself. They crush the spirit first. Then, the body follows along naturally.
ha that's a good one i finally got out of IT with a bit of spirit but the body took a while to come back after sitting on my rear end for so many years. well at least they paid me for it
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Old 19-01-2015, 09:18   #32
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Re: Forum trolls

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
Tob, Welcome to the postings on the Liveaboard's forum. I've followed your posts on "Finding a Family Cruiser" ; "Best European Cruiser....." and "Finding the monohull family cruiser....". As people who are cruising are also living aboard, I hope you find good advice here too. I was pleased, in reading the responses to your posts, that all were positive except one on the day after Christmas. Sure, we enjoy those most positive and dislike the negative ones.

So, to the topic of living aboard while cruising.... I understand you and your wife will be cruising with three children. What are their ages? We raised our two children aboard and found the close quarters a reward for family communication and cooperative problem solving. What are you schooling plans for the children? What are your cruising destination plans?
Hi!
Me + wife + Three kids. If we leave 2019 (maybe 2020) they will be 9, 11 and 13 years old. Not sure if the 9 + 11 can share the bow cabin. Schooling plans, I should be able to cater for their needs, it's not so advanced math and stuff when you're 13. In Sweden you can get plans from the municipality, to follow. Best of all is that my wife is a math, physics, Chemistry and biology (most important subject, aye?) teacher for ages 11-16. She shouldn't take full responsibility though, we ought to share the burdon a bit.

Destination: Carribbean! I love a tropical climate so I am born in the wrong country. Sweden is as far as I know one of the better countries to grow up and work in, it's pretty rich, we got Welfare, you get almost a year off for each child, subsidized by the government, the work environment is pretty democratic, you can't get fired the same day, you have Three months notice, even more after some years. Etc etc. But it's a bit boring, we tend to overprotect the Citizens, fences everywhere, helmet on in all situations etc. At least it bores me. And people are not very out-going, if you say hello to a stranger they Think you're crazy. And the lack of sun in the Winter, it's bad for the Health, northern Sweden is pitch black for a month or so, and has the highest suicide rate in Sweden. Not enough D-vitamin or so. We want to be away for a year in total. I would like to sail up to Florida also but maybe we don't have time for that.
Been in the states, really like it, like all places it has its ups and downs of course. Found it really nice.

Cheers
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Old 19-01-2015, 09:32   #33
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Re: Forum trolls

"It was the drop that flooded the glass or however you say it in English." Sometimes English speakers use the term "Straw that broke the camel's back" which means the same thing. You can only load a camel so much and then you add one more straw and break its back. Poor camel.

It's good to have you here. I've always picked a boat by whether or not I fall in love with it. It is not the best way but it doesn't require much thought. I just go look at it, go aboard, try out the systems, take it for a sail and if I really, really like it then I buy it.

kind regards,

John
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Old 19-01-2015, 09:47   #34
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Re: Forum trolls

Any boat that you can sail from there to the Caribbean, would I think be more than sea worthy enough for the Caribbean, assuming your sailing here as opposed to buying here.

One year in the Caribbean may not really require that much in ultimate seaworthiness, maybe looking for a boat that would be comfortable for the three kids and you and the wife might be higher on the list.

I'm assuming you would be buying here as opposed to sailing here?

As far as the trolls, I believe this site more than most tries to keep them at bay, but I've found the best thing you can do with trolls, is just ignore them. If you do they will go away and bother someone else who couldn't ignore them.
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Old 19-01-2015, 12:10   #35
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Re: Forum trolls

Good luck TOB! My wife and I a good examples of how you can start knowing nothing and then find how that we actually know less than nothing. We bought a boat that violated many of our "must have" list of things. Spent a small fortune adding or fixing those things. Not regretting any of it.

Cruising with kids is challenging for the kids and the parents. But we found so many happy families out and about. The kids were some of the most well-adjusted we have met anywhere. Teenagers seem to get bored quick though and want to go home to be in school with kids their own age.

We just bought our next old boat hoping that would avoid the things we didn't like about the first one, and have all the things we did like. We violated both of these again, but it was a love a first sight. Time will tell if we have no regrets about this one.

Being a nerd myself, I found that cruising was a great way to be more sociable with agreeable people of all stripes and colors. Can't tell you enough how much we miss being in far off anchorages with funny, smart, helpful, interesting people, many nerds themselves. But all with something in common. So easy to make lifelong friends quickly.

I tend to write excessively long and windy emails/posts. I usually apologize in advance. I studied English in graduate school to learn out to teach English as a second language. It is enormously complicated. I still fracture my writing with bad grammar, especially with run-on sentences that are practically impossible to decipher by anyone else but me. I used to spelt real good but know longer.

But breaking up paragraphs so that each has only one or two thoughts is easier for the reader to understand, and more important to you, for them to give you a good response for what you need. I only wish I would follow that advice. I too tried writing in MSWord and then copying in to blogs but found it impossible because of the formatting problems like you have found. I could proofread and correct much easier in Word, and come back to it later to make it better, but have stopped that.

Anyway, sorry for the long post You are starting a long and interesting journey. I am envious. If your heart keeps you on it, don't give up. If you are about to get divorced because you wife (some day) no longer shares your dream, you will have a very difficult decision to make. It happens. Our plan: Do it as long as it is fun.
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Old 19-01-2015, 13:15   #36
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Re: Forum trolls

I think you'll find the forum more useful if you ask specific questions.

"What is the perfect boat" is like asking "What is the perfect wife". Actually, there's probably more disagreement about the boat than wife

The ensuing argument is good fun but only if you like arguing. If you actually wanted information, it might seem like trolls.

Instead ask a question like

"I'm planning to cross the Atlantic and spend four years in the Caribbean with my wife and one child. My budget is 100,000 euros. I really like traditional boats like the Shannon 38. What are people's experience with this boat? What similar boats should I look at?"

This question will get you serious answers from a lot of experienced people. No trolls.

Don't be too influenced by strongly held "conventional wisdom" in those books you've bought. For example, I've owned both full keel and fin keel boats and liked both. Each has some advantages over the other but the differences didn't impact where I went on the boat. So, keel shape is very low on my list of buying criteria. But if I are going to cruise the Bahamas, draft would be high on the list (although I know someone who cruised the Bahamas with 7ft draft and said he had more anchorage choices than he needed.)

What ever you do, don't ask about guns or anchors!
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Old 19-01-2015, 13:40   #37
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pirate Re: Forum trolls

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
says 14,440 posts
Fills the time between trips...
and during...
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Old 19-01-2015, 19:56   #38
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Re: Forum trolls

Just because I am under a bridge does not make me a troll. I may be just visiting.
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Old 19-01-2015, 20:05   #39
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Re: Forum trolls

tob:

If you left click on the triangle at the bottom left corner of your original post, you can report it to a moderator, and ask for the mod's assistance to re-format it as you want it to appear. You can report any post for any reason in this same way.

If you are interested in monohull sailboats, how many cabins do you think you need? Generally speaking, I would think you could work something out for only a year's cruise for sleeping quarters with 3 cabins, but there may be some personal requirement that you and your family have which I have not considered.

As mentioned above, after you have refined your list of potentially desirable boats, with your personal requirements clearly stated, then the combined experience represented by the forum members might help you refine your choices.

As an aside, we spent 3-1/2 years seriously looking for what we thought we wanted before we bought this boat. We had a written list of what we did want, and about 6 deal breakers (what was unacceptable to us). Brokers reacted differently to the list, and it was actually a good broker-filter. We found it useful to have it printed out and ready to go.

Welcome aboard,

Ann
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Old 19-01-2015, 20:25   #40
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Re: Forum trolls

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Just because I am under a bridge does not make me a troll. I may be just visiting.
A cardiologist living under a bridge! I think that's a better place for a troll

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 19-01-2015, 20:49   #41
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Re: Forum trolls

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Originally Posted by tob View Post
We have a saying in Swedish. If you say "A" you have to say "B". So to round up and balance what I wrote: No, I don't feel abused. And I shouldn't get that agitated about those remarks I have gotten, sure thing. It's just that this is the third boat forum I've become member of, and I've heard the remarks I stated above in other forums, here I heard I know very little or something like that, that's all really. Not nice to hear, but I don't feel very hurt, rest assured. It was the drop that flooded the glass or however you say it in English.

On the whole it seems like a nice bunch of people here! There are rotten apples everywhere. Somebody said "the nature of the beast". Makes sense I suppose. I believe in being positive though.

Regarding the term "forum troll". Not sure if one can say such a thing in English. It was coined by the Swedish journalist Robert Aschberg (fairly sure), when he did a TV series about real assholes who bullies people into suicide, or almost anyway, in some forums. He actually looked them up, behind their aliases, and showed the viewers who they really were, with their real name and all. This applies more to social forums for teenagers and the like, not this kind of forum. But I think one should keep in mind not to hurt people's feelings in forums, generally speaking. I haven't seen anything similar here. The purpose of the TV series was also to shed light on the current legislation and how it should/must change to incorporate internet etc.

Sorry about the indenting and paragraphing. I wrote it in MS Word and the formatting disappeared when pasting into the web browser. Can't seem to edit the post so it'll have to look the way it looks for now, sorry about that.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong section, the forums seems to look different in tablets and PCs maybe, or I might be doing something wrong.

Finally, I am really looking for _THE_ boat for us, I don't like so much to have to post my family situation etc, but I also want the best possible boat and relevant replies, so I felt I couldn't exclude the number of family members, their ages and stuff. I think it is a little to early to post this in a forum that I've recently joined, but hard to get good advice otherwise, people might think I am going to sail the boat single-handed or something, which is not the case.

Cheers mates
Good reply (post)!

I don't think anyone likes Trolls around. I know I have been turned off by some forums, including a couple of other sailing forums, because of troll like behavior of some of the members. It is a shame that folks can't be more civil.

About your future trip with your family, I think it is a great thing! I wish I could have done something like that (living on a boat) with my parents when I was a kid. Good luck on your boat choice and future trip.
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Old 20-01-2015, 06:21   #42
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Re: Forum trolls

tob, While you are looking at potential vessels for your family consider the possibilities of adapting some of the cabin space. When our children were six and eight years old we moved to another boat and slightly altered one cabin to accomodate two.

We set two small computer desks back to back with a partial wall supported between them. Our son and daughter each had their own space with their bed, desk area and small standing area.

With this autonomy each was free to manage their own space. One was obsessively neat and organized and the other lived in more chaos, but these spaced suited them well until they moved away as adults.
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Old 20-01-2015, 06:44   #43
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Re: Forum trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by tob
... Swedish journalist Robert Aschberg (fairly sure), when he did a TV series about real assholes who bullies people into suicide, or almost anyway, in some forums. He actually looked them up, behind their aliases, and showed the viewers who they really were, with their real name and all...
Thanks for bring that interesting fact to our attention.

A Swedish TV show called Trolljägarna (Troll Hunters) researches and tracks down purported trolls. The host, Robert Aschberg, confronts the subjects on camera.
Meet the Dogged Researchers Who Try to Unmask Haters Online | MIT Technology Review

And further:

The Law and Internet Institute (Institutet för Juridik & Internet - IJI) was founded by Stockholm University civil law professor Mårten Schultz in February 2013, with the aim of making the internet a better place.
Juridikinstitutet - Institutet för Juridik och Internet (IJI)

We have similar concerns in Canada, where it's being called cyber-bullying.

Canadian teens Rehtaeh Parsons and Amanda Todd, who endured years of torment online, eventually committed suicide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04...n_3052694.html

http://www.getcybersafe.gc.ca/cnt/cb...sqncs-eng.aspx
http://www.stopabully.ca/
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cycp-cpcj/.../index-eng.htm
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Old 20-01-2015, 07:12   #44
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Re: Forum trolls

There is a big difference between a troll and someone who offends you. We in the west believe it is within our rights to offend. Its what separates us from those other nations that stifle free speech. We have no problem with offending peoples ideas of religion or politics which I'm sure is why its is a no no on this site. Some of us can be offended when our ideas and conceptions are challenged and that's actually a good thing as just maybe we might learn something.
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Old 20-01-2015, 07:39   #45
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Re: Forum trolls

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Thanks for bring that interesting fact to our attention.

A Swedish TV show called Trolljägarna (Troll Hunters) researches and tracks down purported trolls. The host, Robert Aschberg, confronts the subjects on camera.
Meet the Dogged Researchers Who Try to Unmask Haters Online | MIT Technology Review

And further:

The Law and Internet Institute (Institutet för Juridik & Internet - IJI) was founded by Stockholm University civil law professor Mårten Schultz in February 2013, with the aim of making the internet a better place.
Juridikinstitutet - Institutet för Juridik och Internet (IJI)

We have similar concerns in Canada, where it's being called cyber-bullying.

Canadian teens Rehtaeh Parsons and Amanda Todd, who endured years of torment online, eventually committed suicide.
Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd Deaths Share Similarities (VIDEO)

What are the potential legal consequences of cyberbullying?
- STOP A BULLY - Canada's Anti-Bullying Reporting Program : Bullying Statistics, Cyberbullying
Bullying and Cyberbullying - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
So pitiful. I suppose today the Roman satirist Juvenal would be called a "hater." Jonathan Swift, too. Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain. And my favorite from fiction, Cyrano de Bergerac.

Today you just have to be a crybaby to get your way.
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