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Old 17-02-2010, 17:05   #121
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There are many who believe what you do:
Population Control and Climate Change, Part One: Too Many People? : Climate and Capitalism
'Greens' movement may have darker agenda


OOOOH.

More conspiracy stuff. Good. Will read later.


PS: too much too fast for me to keep up. Got called.....gotta go to work.........later.
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Old 17-02-2010, 17:12   #122
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/\ The DR has a constitution which protects the liberties of the individual, modeled after the US's, they operate under a capitalist economic system as well.

Haiti is an authoritarian nation, with no protection for the rights of the individual, the government is the largest employer, also the most corrupt. They have a pseudo legislature that only seeks to grow tyranny.



So yeah.... the weather in Florida seems to be improving!

Sorry,
I was a bit tongue in cheek.
I knew that.......sort of, but thanks for the definitions.

Anyway, I don't disagree with your ideas of freedom and choice and that doing the right thing is, in fact, the right thing. But

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Each person should make their own decisions throughout life, as long as they do not violate other people's lives, liberty or property.
Getting humans to agreee on what is a violation of another is the tough nut. That is where groups align themselves and start drawing lines in the grey areas.

Sorry.

Really got to go now.
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Old 17-02-2010, 17:23   #123
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Knot,
The green movement only seeks to regulate, not offer choices, and that is what I think they are trying to accomplish through this man-made global warming movement.
The only movements that I'm interested in are the ones that needlessly waste millions of gallons of fresh water every morning.

btw, there's nothing wrong with being regular. ....oh, you said regulate. ......
........nevermind.
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Old 17-02-2010, 17:39   #124
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The only movements that I'm interested in are the ones that needlessly waste millions of gallons of fresh water every morning.

btw, there's nothing wrong with being regular. ....oh, you said regulate. ......
........nevermind.
It's ok, We'll let it slide... ....out...
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Old 17-02-2010, 17:45   #125
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I always find it humorous that in any discussion of how we humans are destroying the planet, people seem to forget how much WORSE things were - environmentally - just 40 years ago. We burned leaded gas at about 12 mpg. We dumped untreated sewage and industrial chemicals into any convenient body of water, all over the world. The skies over L.A. were a brown soup for half the year. The river in Cleveland burned. We had no idea how much unnecessary chemicals we were dumping on our crops (the amounts of active ingredient used today are miniscule, compared to back in the 60s and 70s). Consumer packaging wasted far more natural resources than it does today. Our homes and commercial buildings are far more energy efficient, as are the appliances in them.

It wasn't so long ago that there were vast stretches of our coastline that were off limits to swimming due to pollution. Ask someone what it was like sailing in Boston Harbor in the 1960s.

The list can go on and on.
Unfortunately, no one ever got elected or got funding for a research grant with the premise that "Isn't it great that things are so much better than they were before."

The cold war ended, and a huge part of the population lost their funding sources, so another "crisis" needed to be created, to keep that money faucet open -- enter "Climate change."

Always . . . ALWAYS follow the money.

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Old 17-02-2010, 18:02   #126
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Who's forgotten? You're not suggesting that since things were worse 40 years ago that everything is peachy keen now are you?
I think it's great that there have been improvements in those and many other areas. So why should we stop trying to improve now?
I don't subscribe to all the theories, Hell, I don't know all the theories but I do know that there are many things that we can all do individually that can add up to big improvements.
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Old 17-02-2010, 18:25   #127
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The law of diminishing returns applies everywhere.
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Old 17-02-2010, 18:28   #128
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i feel as if the scam artistes promoting the alleged global warming theory--actually a lie lie--if you listen to real scientists who have been saying for many decades what is and has been happening to and with this planet--the global warming bs was spawned and promoted by a richie politician and greed monger--trying to scare the world's population into agreement -- even to the point of presenting falsified info towards a fake if not fully bought and paid for nobel prize so he and his wifee can sell carbon credits and scam the world. humans are only able to provide a small percentage of the damage done here to our planet---mother nature does much much more damage to earth than we have and will ever be able to do---we are most arrogant species to think we are responsible for the amount of damage w ehave been accused of making..LOL....when i was in 4th grade in 1950 something, i read an article in newspaper--ny times, i believe or world telegram and sun--befor e merger with anothe rpaper--lol---which stated that the earth is undergoing many changes and should have an increase in percentage of water on its surface ..was only a few yrs ago i read an insert in another newspaper--in kali..that the scientists who presented those facts--yes--was backed up by true facts, unlike algores bs...that this is on schedule--so--you telll me this was caused by man when this planet undergoes these changes on a cyclic basis....arrogant and ignorant----i should have added--humans are eager to follow as sheep when they hear stuff spewed by alleged scientists---this is true in religion and in dietary trends and allt he other facets of life. gurus are only gurus until proven wrong., in 2025 i will adgudge the first group of these scientists i read the comments of--lol.....i am not willing to accept that the words of a politician using falsified reports, faked data and unscientific means who preaches the end of the world as his pockets are being filled by the blood sweat and tears of the world's population. are you????
someone needs to keep grey matter intact and not be a follower.....who will that be, aside from me and a few others??

please note i am not accusing any of you of being arrogant and ignorant--is a human trait ..we all are guilty of that--self included--but, looking at reality and cycles of history and geology--we have done not nearly what the volcanic eruptions of mount st helens and pinatuvo and vesuvius etc--despite burning rain forests and using spray paint and driving stinky cars and stinkpot boats.....i am just not a sheep lining up for the fiscal slaughter and financial destruction the super rich bs artists are trying to inflict upon us--the scam is only a greed game which was atttempted to be stuck on everyone in this world--how rich does the bs and scam artiste need to be, anyway?? was all contrived for personal gain of one politician and his spousal unit. i am not going to fall for this scam. are you??

i agree that we have to watch our stuff and feathers but i am not into the extremism that is being forced upon the world by the rich politician. we do need to watch our resources but we donot need taxes on them for only one soul's personal gain ....which is what the gw thing was originated for....we DO need to keep the population of good trees as intact as possible---w edo not need to foul our nests with bs and extra stuff of an unnecessary nature--how much STUFF do people NEED for their lives?? we also do not need to spill our trash into any place on this earth without treating or burning it....we donot need to foul our oceans with unnecessary garbage---there are things we CAN do to help our planet without having to undergo unnecessary taxation and restrictions, which IS the direction these global warming extremists are heading. there is a difference between that which humanity has done and what mother nature has done--we can only watch our human fouling --we foul--we fix-- that is good---taxation of individuals for the deterioration of the planet is ridiculous. thankyou.(bows) please take this soap box from me---
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Old 17-02-2010, 18:32   #129
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Brilliant posts Knot. Very helpful. I'm totally composting from here on out.

Thanks.
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Old 17-02-2010, 18:51   #130
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Brilliant posts Knot. Very helpful. I'm totally composting from here on out.

Thanks.

You have a 10 gallon hat?
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Old 18-02-2010, 07:07   #131
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Meanwhile, ........I sit here, reading this thread which I havent kept up with lately, and outside its STILL snowing, here in this SCEPTERED Isle, traditionally kept warm all year round by the unshakeable gulf stream waters.

This winter, the average daily temp in this part of UK hasnt risen above 10c for better part of 10 consecutive weeks. Thats a record in my lifetime.
Regardless of what or who is to blame, French or otherwise, if this weather pattern (not climate change) is going to become a regular event, we need better homes and cheaper fuel. AS things currently stand in uk, most homes are still woefully inadequate for a sustained cold weather regeime utalising our current prefered method of heating which is natural gas.

The dwindling global resources are also matched by the growing population, and the speedily widening gap cannot be spanned. Something has to give, and its a brave person who, in this day, has the balls to mention population control.
Whats changed?

Global comms, everyone has a sat dish and can see what every other country is doing. That means even mud hut inhabitants who were once in blissful ignorance, now want a slice of the fun. They all want man made lifestyles. To back that up is the assertion that everyone has a human right to do what they please. That includes having more and more kids.

WHere will it end? No one country is big enough to make rules the rest will follow.
Maybe nature will be the one to regulate with a natural catastrophy and put a stop to the run away train of polution and waste.
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Old 18-02-2010, 08:01   #132
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannon have cheap energy, while railing against Oil and it's byproducts and making laws forbidding drilling.
Every year, oil projections exceed the previous year's projections, meaning we are discovering new wells faster than we can deplete the existing ones, and the ones we HAVE depleted, we are now finding that they are refilling themselves.

Peak Oil? Not If This Deep Earth Hydrocarbon Theory Is True
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Old 18-02-2010, 11:11   #133
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That means even mud hut inhabitants who were once in blissful ignorance, now want a slice of the fun. They all want man made lifestyles. To back that up is the assertion that everyone has a human right to do what they please. That includes having more and more kids.

so what elitists are going to determine that the mud hut inhabitants are not entitled to modern conviences?
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Old 18-02-2010, 11:21   #134
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so what elitists are going to determine that the mud hut inhabitants are not entitled to modern conviences?
Exactly. That means everyones large share of the planet puts the squeeze on whats left.
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Old 18-02-2010, 11:38   #135
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It may be absolute arrogance (hubris) to assume that (7 billion) humans can NOT have any affect on this living and powerful planet.
It also seems ironic that the claimant himself is arrogant enough to assume a mantle of scientific knowledge and analysis sufficient to contradict the vast majority of professionals (in the field).
It's nuts to assume that 7 billion of any large animal on a planet with a diameter of less than 8,000 miles would not have an effect on the planet, and doubly so when the animal is as clever as us.

Look at the earth from space at night, and you can begin to see the effects.
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