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Old 16-03-2016, 12:37   #31
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I misspoke ... I didn't mean to say the gutless politicians, had a backdoor gutless way of making law ... I meant to say the governor, could be gutless, inthat he could do nothing, for a law that might be illegal or even unconstitutional ... to become law and maintain some degree of personal responsibility ... which works for some people(voters) ... in other words, the governor can let something that ... maybe he actually knows to be problematic(he's usually surrounded by knowledgeable people).

I would think he can take the high ground by signing it and "protecting", his filthy rich constituents, regardless of possible problems or he could veto it for any number of reasons ... good or bad.

He chose this way to remove himself from the decision ... kinda like voting "not present"...
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Old 16-03-2016, 12:39   #32
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Or, maybe he just hasn't gotten a "round tuit" yet?
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Old 16-03-2016, 12:49   #33
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
fuzzy math in re: Boot Key/Marathon:

226 moorings at Boot Key x $300/mo = $67,800
that is, not even close to $100K/mo, and...
And that's only when the balls are all taken.

These mooring fields cost more than they take in, there's no doubt about that. How much do the moorings cost to install and maintain? How much are the salaries of the folks working for the mooring fields? How much for the pumpout boat and person to work it? How much for the showers and laundry to run and maintain?

I am pretty damn sure that in general, "cruisers," however you care to define them, cost the state of Florida (or any other state for that matter) more than they bring in. It's no surprise that the state is only too happy to legislate anchoring out of existence. Can't blame them, not one bit...
Let's run the math...

226 x $340 a month...$76840 a month...that's just morning balls..full.

50-100 x anchorage people not using ball using same facilities but no mooring ball on their own hooks....x $228 a month = $11400...there at least 50 people during season paying this monthly.

$22 daily fee for transient, gets pump out, use of facilities...this is generally figured at $5k a month average in season as 250 customers per month.

Wall-quay people gets another $15k a month...12-16 boats on average paying by the foot...

There is your $100K plus a month during season...minimal gross intake...

Now let's talk extras...

Laundry..$3 wash and another $3 dry per load...total money maker...military base I paid $1 each if not free?

Pump outs...$5 each, yet there is a florida subsidy provision paying the city...this is total profit for the city.

Projects room...$5 per day over nite fee to leave your project in the room...mostly dinks people refurbishing...

Storage lockers rented to boat people who don't boat if they even live aboard their vessel still??? 60 x $40...$2400...

Many of the people with lockers use mooring ball to "wet storage" their vessel...greatest deal in the keys, wet storage for a vessel, parking spot for car, shower card you can pass off to friends, dink parking up to and including a whaler 13.6 skiff (biggest boat you can use as dink per rules) many use as flats fishing boat/dive boat and storage locker so you don't have to keep tools onboard vessel....$300 a month...beat deal ever!!!

plus per marina rules, you can raft up a 16 foot vessel to your liveaboard vessel on your mooring ball, can't park it at dink dock but you can raft it to your liveaboard is acceptable so a lot have 10ft RIB w/9.9 then raft a Carolina skiff 16 w/40hp as fishing/diving vessel as play toy...

Workers? Or the revolving door of employees? Workers start at $15 an hour x 4 full timers, one part timer and 2 seasonal part timers... most don't stay to earn the $1 raise after 90 days...one of the new guys is loved, he got $2 raise as he's liked by dock master/admin lady...

Don't know the dock master/asst dock master??? I'd guess $100K combined/annually to be fair? Both salaried work 45 hrs week one 4 days and asst works 3 days, all federal holidays off as marina offices/facilities are closed all federal holidays...

Admin lady? I'm assuming $35-42K she's salary 50 hrs week/weekdays only...

City marina marathon is the highest grossing cash cow for the city period...everyone in marathon knows this...
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Old 16-03-2016, 13:02   #34
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

And besides, the derelicts and anchor-outs don't pay at all and are yet benefiting from the Florida public's kind subsidization of them. And I've posted examples of just how expensive it is to remove derelicts.



Florida is just plain tired of having 'tourists' that cost more than they bring in.[/QUOTE]

Anchorage people who come ashore at city marina marathon docks pay $225ish, get all perks but mooring ball...dink dock usage, once a week pump out.parking 1 vehicle (often these passes are sold off if person has no vehicle) bicycle parking, use of projects room, mail service, use of capts lounge w/Internet etc.

People not using city marina marathon, anchorage people are monitored about pump outs...Monroe sheriffs office has a boats division and deputy Wilfredo Guiara has his Sheriffs Dept Boat on a lift on the City Marina Marathons Quay...once a month he investigates those without mandatory weekly pump out receipt (city marina marathon keeps a list for him to investigate) and he writes citations accordingly...
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Old 16-03-2016, 20:16   #35
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
fuzzy math in re: Boot Key/Marathon:

These mooring fields cost more than they take in, there's no doubt about that. How much do the moorings cost to install and maintain? How much are the salaries of the folks working for the mooring fields? How much for the pumpout boat and person to work it? How much for the showers and laundry to run and maintain?
I think this is not correct.

First, I applaud the State for breaking even on the mooring fields. Its not the State's job to make a profit and if they were it would probably be illegal in some way.

Lets talk about Marathon.

You have to account for all the additional revenue spent for groceries, gas, bars, restaurants, etc...that's at least another 500 people going out on an almost daily basis spending a minimum of cash (for arguements sake lets say $10). That's AT LEAST $1M a year in additional revenue not counting the mooring field.

Let's talk about St. Augustine.

First hand experience - my wife drives the St. Augustine Cruisers Shuttle. Its specifically set up for cruisers and they have a standard route that for $5 p/p takes you to all the places cruisers need to go to. They get picked up at the municipal marina and all the other marinas in the immediate area.

Cruisers spend a TON of money in StA. The city council is so enamored by the effect of the shuttle bus on revenue that they can't do enough to promote it.

Now, StA is a seasonal destination. Twice a year are the heavy times when cruisers go back and forth to the south/bahamas. During that time (maybe 2 or 3 months each) she packs the bus with people. They spend a HUGE amount of money doing everything from going to the grocery to going to the movies. She has to run 3 or more times a day just to keep up with the volume. She fills teh back of the bus with everything from cases of beer and groceries to big ticket items like sailboat arches, expensive bikes from West Marine, etc.

I cannot imagine how much money is actually spent in the Marathon community and mooring field but I assure you that [even here in a seasonal destination] its in the multiples of millions.
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Old 16-03-2016, 20:47   #36
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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Originally Posted by Sailor Jer View Post
Sure it does, keeps boat people and boat people culture offahore/from squatting near shore.

It's really about the derilict vessels and boat people mentality of "everything is supposed to be free" B.S.

Rent a slip in a real marina, rent off someone's quay/do exchange etc. Florida keys especially is littered with boat people no better than those who make camp in mangroves or live on the beach IMO.
It 'solves' the 'problem' by prohibiting anyone form anchoring. Derelict boats never was the 'problem'. There are existing laws to handle that. Its about money and power and border property owners usurping ownership of the sea bottom in the public, navigable waterway and to force boat owners to rent a mooring or slip when they might otherwise drop the hook. The costs of a tie-up are way out of proportion when cleats and 50 feet of timber costs 10X my 2600 sq-ft house & pool. This would 'solve' the problem in the only way government knows how - drive the boats away along with the business & jobs. Such government interventions ended 4 nationally known boat builders in Michigan and permanently closed 1/4 of the marinas around the state. Money is fungible. Those with choice will take it where it is appreciated.
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Old 16-03-2016, 22:29   #37
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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And you also keep a sledgehammer aboard to kill flies...

MY weapon of choice...

Click image for larger version

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Love it! (not sure how it works on pesky 'squatters'.)



-Bill
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Old 17-03-2016, 21:35   #38
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I don't think that the Governor has to actually sign the bill. If he doesn't veto the bill it becomes law even without his signature...

Bill Signing Deadlines - StateScape
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Old 18-03-2016, 00:50   #39
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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Joined in '14 but only started posting this year.

He's from Cali, but moved to Atlanta to "learn boats/cruising".

He's a disabled veteran, thanks for your service Jer.

Apparently spent some time in Marathon where he developed his opinions about "boat people", which is the subject of most of his posts.

I think I recall a mention of being in Maine now. Not sure.

Pretty sure never mentioned buying a boat or going sailing.
Yep that's about what I got from his profile also. He definitely needs to learn a lil humility though. I'm a 13 year disabled vet as well however I have no problem with people living however they can as long as they keep their area as clean as they are able. People who look down on people because of how they are ( and I'm using lots a attitude here) find they have to just to make ends meet . Need to remember one lil line.
But by the grace of god there go I ( rant over)
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Old 18-03-2016, 01:14   #40
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

I hear you newhaul. Ex Air Force myself, five years though.

Livin the life on my old boat. I think I have $69 right now but going in to the marina in the morning to top off my diesel, then broke again. Income is $300 a month from my nephew paying me for a nice car I sold him, just a few months to go on that. Plus whatever I barter or make from cleaning someone's outboard carb or fixing thier running lights or something.

I guess I'm one of those boat people with no means Jer has such a dislike for.

But I sail, and I care not. Except I'm heading across the Okee next, so won't sail much til the other side.
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Old 18-03-2016, 08:37   #41
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Hey Jer, no personal problem with you. Just coincidently end up reading the same threads about Florida, since that is where I'm wandering about.

Posted some comments above based on statements you have made in those threads. Gossip maybe I guess, but don't think they misrepresent what you have said.

Yes I'm a redneck and a boat person, but there is a duality in those labels that many don't understand.

What kind of boat did you say you have? Been sailing lately?
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Old 18-03-2016, 08:51   #42
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Folks, a few posts have been removed.
Lets try and keep to the subject, and avoid the gossip about our fellow members.

Thanks
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Old 18-03-2016, 10:10   #43
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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Folks, a few posts have been removed.
Lets try and keep to the subject, and avoid the gossip about our fellow members.

Thanks
Quite right, I apologize for any insensitive post I may have made.

I don't live in Florida so this bill does not affect me..yet, will this kind of thing "catch on" else where? Everything else does. It does seem the bill is not at all about derelict boats , but about where boats can anchor, it could be a brand new 1/2 million dollar boat, but some land owner's don't want to see boats at all after buying water front property. In Florida, when buying real estate, are you buying land AND what you can see from that land? That in it self is very odd to me.
I also see that Florida ramped up their attention on derelict's in 2014. But maybe not being enforced? Why not just have law's that state a vessel must be kept to a shipshape standard? Able to move under it's own power be it sail or power? Kept to some form of tidy condition, not a nasty eye sore. When I have lived in any city, in any state, your property must be maintained to a standard, why not these mooring ares that affect other's?

The marina I have a slip in has high standards, some hate them for it, I really enjoy the clean tidy state of the whole marina, security and peace of mind that comes with having great like minded boat owner's around. When I bought my boat it came with transferable slip, the previous owner told me, if you leave a hundred dollar bill under a rock on the deck, there will most likely be 200 when you return. A stretch to be sure but his point is taken. and that for under $400 a month as live aboard, water, power, dock box, after hour's card key dock gate's, a buck fifty for laundry, 50 cent for 5 minute shower, and the unparallelled beauty of the Olympic Peninsula.Wa.
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Old 18-03-2016, 10:18   #44
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

Evidently, many rich landowners just cannot stand the very sight of a lessor class of citizens ... the view from their picture windows SHALL NOT be tainted.

They have the money, they are the power-brokers, and they control the politicians ... kinda like a trifecta.

They're so certain of what they don't want to see, that they're even willing to destroy their own view to keeps lessor citizens from being part of that view.

Maybe this is why, during the French Revolution, the situation got so absolutely nasty.

Randy Newman sang a song about Lennon and how communism didn't work out.

One of the last things Randy sang was how he loved America, cause although there will always be poor people ... the rich don't ever have to see them.

Personally, this whole shabang in Florida seems to be nothing more than intolerant rich people don't want to see poor people ...
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Old 18-03-2016, 10:52   #45
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Re: Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

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I don't live in Florida so this bill does not affect me..yet, will this kind of thing "catch on" else where? Everything else does.

That is my concern, personally I don't care a Rats behind about S Fl., but it does set a precedent doesn't it?

I used to RV, got tired of that very quickly as all you can do is go from one RV park to another RV park and park your RV in besides dozens of others.
Of course there is the Walmart parking lot

I've never stayed in a mooring field, have never picked up a ball, don't even know how, don't want to, but I fear that this and a Marina will be the only legal option in more and more places, all we are is floating RV's, and who wants those things scattered all over place on the sides of the roads, right?
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