Everyone Thinks I'm Nuts - Help!

[twisty]

Originally Posted by BadFish

Twisty, I have been resisting this thread for some time now, but the numbers of replies are rivaling that of the Barack Obama thread, and I can no longer hold out.

So... IMHO,

First, A 54' boat is a little big for two people. I'm not saying that you couldn't handle it, I'm saying that you don't need it. I really think that you will be much happier on a smaller boat.

Second, As a relatively young man myself, an extended voyage with a 18 y/o could be unpleasant. I believe (IMHO again), that a man at that age needs to be out learning about himself, chasing women (or men if he's into that), and finding his own adventures. Regardless of how awesome of a kid he may be, there will be tension. You will get sick of each other. He will get bored. A young man needs to get out and meet and have fun with people his own age, and it's hard to do when you're hangin with your mom (no offense).

Third, and the point I really wanted to get across: Since ya own a seafood market, can ya ship me any: Mahi, Ahi, Ono, Yellowfin, Bluefin, Seabass, Clams, Crabs, Lobsters, Mussels, Oysters, or Scallops? I'm really in a seafood craze, here in the dead of Pittsburgh winter.

Anyway, congrats on your mechanical and other self-sufficient skills, that's awesome. You def got a good plan, keep with it and don't let anyone scare ya away.

But seriously... Can I get some fresh seafood?

Cheers

Bill

It snowed here yesterday all the fish flew the coup with the pelicans and I am getting ready to follow them if this weather doesn't quit soon....LOL

We are actually closed for the winter, Oysters by request but I am pretty sure I am not allowed to ship them, if my mind serves me correctly there is special license to ship over state lines because they are so dangerous health wise. I know I had to go through hell to get my permit to even buy them from the commercial guys.

To be honest even if we were open I doubt I would have any real fish, Sea Trout maybe but that would be about it. Its has been so cold out there no one has been going out. Nevermind the camel humps offshore have looked like elephants for a couple weeks now. I saw one boat go by today, it was going north(BRRR) in the waterway and it was by no mean a commercial fishing boat, it looked like a lost snowbird.

Now if you had got me last week I could have sent you some soft shell crabs, but being we are closed I ate them...lol I have a little Ahi but it is not that great after sitting in the freezer all winter(we do sushi a couple times a week for anyone that happens to be around if anyone is ever up this way, beer not included but not discouraged either)

Hit me up the end of march, I will have local Grouper, Snapper, Flounder, Yellowfin, Mahi(if i can get it shipped in), blue crabs, clams, lump crab meat, our famous crab cakes and I carry the best Dry Pack Scallops around.

Wish I could be of more help.

[Pblais]

I will have local Grouper, Snapper, Flounder, Yellowfin, Mahi(if i can get it shipped in), blue crabs, clams, lump crab meat, our famous crab cakes and I carry the best Dry Pack Scallops around.

Success in cruising is greatly enhanced by ones ability to make friends and influence people. You really can make friends with this approach.

[Maine Sail]

Your heart and head are in the right frame of mind but unfortunately your wallet does not meet the desired outcome of a 57 foot wood boat with twin Detroits.

Having spent nearly my entire life on and around boats, including many 50-60 foot power boats, and larger, many with twin Detroits, I can assure you that your $1200.00 a month will likely be gone in your first two days of ownership. unfortunately, it won't stop there.

Detroits are not the most reliable engines and thus require some hefty parts bills and this is if you are doing all the labor. Have you priced a re-man cylinder head? A turbo? A tranny? A new prop when you inevitably find the bottom? A new prop shaft for a 57 footer? How about interior plumbing? New seacocks? A haul out? Steering gear? Hydraulic pumps?

If I had to put a number on what we spent, on basically brand new 8-72's (this was abrand new 50 foot Post), in one season, I would say it was in the 3-5k range. That was JUST maintenence & parts on the engines!! There are soooo many things to go wrong with a 57 footer in fiberglass asside from the engines that even a 6-7k budget per month living on the hook may not cut it and you're talking wood. How much will the paint cost just to coat a 57 footer? Brushes, rollers thinners, tape, sand paper.. The bottom paint alone will run you in the $600.00 (three gallons though might take four) range for a decent quality paint. If you skimp on the paint you'll be hauling every year at how much?

If $1200.00 per month is just for boat expenses you could do this on a 35-42 foot sailboat that has already been re-fit. If $1200.00 per month is for living expenses and the boat then I think you have drastically underestimated the costs of owning and maintaing a vessel.

You keep talking about fuel costs but I can assure you that fuel costs on a 57 footer are not even a dent in the wallet. Like they say if you have to ask how much it costs to fill her up you probably can't afford the boat.


Sorry to be the lone realist but I have worked on numerous 50+ footers and been in charge of the repair check book and it does not end. In 1990 I wrote checks totalling 32k exclusive of fuel and dock space. Asside from heavy engine maintenance myself and the first mate did all the labor. The majority of that money was maintence and upkeep on a brand new 50 footer..

A fair chunck of that money was one new prop and a bent rudder shaft from hitting what we assume was a log in the middle of the ocean in 400 feet of water..
Stuff happens and the bigger the boat the more $$$$$ you spend..

I'm prepare for you to flame me, and expect it because you seem to have all the answers, but do please read what I've written and think about it. Remember before you flame me, as you did a few other posters who aksed you to "think" that you came here and asked "Am I nuts?".. It's not polite to flame folks when they are honestly trying to make you think beyond just the wine & roses part of the dream..

Do yourself a favor and get out a West Marine catalog and begin going through projects that will happen.

Price out new bilge pumps and the associated wiring, and the proper heat shrink crimp connectors and the the proper crimping tools for heat shrink and replacement hose.

Price out a new anchor, rode and chain for a 57 footer. Most, if not all, 57 footers DO NOT have 24/7365 live on the hook anchors hanging off the bow or teh proper ground tackle. Most 57 footers are marina queens..

Keep going and going and going.. I have barely skimmed the maintencae surface..

Also most insurance companies now require boats, based on surveys, to repair or replace items noted in teh survey to ABYC industry standards. If the seacocks for example do not meet current standards and some are frozen, and the surveyor notes this, most insurance companies will require them to be brought up to standard before issuing coverage...

I've already spent over $1200.00 this month on maintenance and my boat is on the hard for the winter.

This is just my winter engine maintenance
on a 2003 44hp motor (I did all labor so this is just parts):


Re-built starter (clutch bearings brushes) $172.00
Rear main engine seal $112.00
Damper plate for Transmission $345.00
New engine hoses $154.00
New Thermostat/gasket $22.00
New valve cover gasket $42.00
Clean HX, Strip & Re-Paint - $62.00
True Prop Shaft - $165.00
Fit and face coupling - $48.00
Re-balance prop - $155.00
New Motor Mounts - $559.68
Misc supplies - $120.00
Antifreeze - $16.00
Hose clamps AWAB - $54.00
HX End caps / gaskets $44.00
Impeller & Gasket $ 28.00

[Pblais]

As far as your cost estimates go they seem very accurate as far as they go. 50+ boats get into big money fast.

Also most insurance companies now require boats, based on surveys, to repair or replace items noted in teh survey to ABYC industry standards.

That is not entirely true. All insurance companies require a recent survey. The list of requirements is not generally disclosed. The specific requirements will vary between insurers. There are a great many current standards that boats 10 years old could never hope to meet. There are entire ABYC sections they never existed before a few yeas ago. There are many things that are unsafe that you could be required to repair / replace. Most all of them are hard to argue about. Some are so dangerous you would not leave a slip without them being repaired. ABYC has no regulatory authority.

I know of no surveyor that can validate every current ABYC standard in a purchase / insurance survey. Each of the surveying organizations do set up standards for surveying and so do differ on the specific things they focus on. Insurance companies set up their own standards when reviewing a survey. They don't publish their standards and they change as they desire.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Pblais

I know of no surveyor that can validate every current ABYC standard in a purchase / insurance survey. Each of the surveying organizations do set up standards for surveying and so do differ on the specific things they focus on. Insurance companies set up their own standards when reviewing a survey. They don't publish their standards and they change as they desire.

Paul,

Not exactly what I said. I said "most insurance companies now require boats, based on surveys, to repair or replace items noted in the survey to ABYC industry standards." I meant to say "or" industry standards meaning SAMS or NAMS recommendations my bad on the omission of the word "or" sorry.

If you find this not to be true of an insurance company, one who does not require noted safety issues be brought up to surveyor recommendations or industry recommendations, please let me know which one does not do this as I have many friends who would like to be insured by them.

There was just a post the other day about a below waterline factory installed PVC elbow on an Ericson that the insurance company was mandating be removed and replaced to meet current standards.

I have done a fair bit if surveying myself (good friend is a surveyor and I help him out quite a bit) and no surveyor is current on all ABYC standards but on standard safety stuff like LPG, seacocks, wiring etc. if it is noted many insurance companies are now requiring repairs done to current standards which are usually ABYC, SAMS or NAMS recommendations.

I was with Acadia & Marsh & they required noted items be repaired to industry standard and they generally noted the surveyors recommendations. Most surveyors, around here at least, list suggestions in-line with current ABYC, SAMS or NAMS guidance but SAMS and NAMS usually fall in,line very closely with ABYC.

ABYC is a voluntary standard, not a mandate, but it can become a mandate if your insurance company decides those guidelines are good ones and asks you to repair to that level..

I am now with Amica they have done the same requiring all noted repairs to be industry standard and as recommended by my surveyor. In fact when I replaced a noted seacock on my current boat my insurance company wanted a photo showing it was UL Marine listed and double hose clamped.

There was also some noted 18ga wire that they made me change even though it was only powering LED's. Unfortunately industry standards have not caught up with the current trends but I do believe E-11 is being changed to reflect new minimum wire gauges to support LED's..

[twisty]

Had to go to the mainland today so took a ride by the boat yard. Got a good look at a few different boats, just to get some idea what I was looking at. It just so happened they had a 34' catamaran sitting on the hard(no idea what it was other than that), it wasn't for sale but the yard lady said she didn't think the owners would mind if I took a look. I was impressed. I looked at a boat simular to the san lorenzo up close too, I was not impressed.

The yard lady was realy nice and said she would give my name an number to the owner so I could get a look inside if I left it, so I did. Hopefully I will hear from them and get to really get a good look at it.

[daveyw]

Jeez! Think I'm in love too! My dream girl! Unfortunately I'm sailor not a petrol/diesel head! Don't be scared of sailing. Check out Sam Davies. She's currently 3rd in the vendee glode sailing a 60 foot yacht. http://www.sailtube.tv/index.php?action=news&id=790 Sailed around the world using no fuel!
Also check out these two ladies The big sailboat project Built their own sailing boat from scratch. I'm sure you would love the challenge

[Ram]

Maine Sail has it right! I have owned a Trawler now since 1991 and I can assure you the cheapest thing for you to be concerned is the fuel- the fuel bill is by far the cheapest part of owning a boat-

There is so much to learn, its a good idea to start very small and work your way up in boat size-

[Charlie]

twisty another thing you need to worry about is the sales tax on the boat. It is my understanding that after a boat spends 90 days in Florida waters it is subject to a use tax. There are ways to avoid it but this should be part of the plan so it does not blind side you. Here is a link to the Florida tax law site FL Dept Rev - Sales and Use Tax on Boats - Owners and Purchasers

As far as the question of a 54' boat goes I don't think anyone has mentioned that the price of maintenace on boats is muliplicative. In other words the price of maintianing a 20 foot boat is only 1/4 the price of taking care of a 40 boat. (thinking back on the boats I have had it might be 1/8) There seems to be a jump about every five feet. When my wife and I were building our present house we started thinking Ok we need this for my son and this for my daughter and then we realized that they would be gone in to colleg in less ten years and we would still have 20 years to go on the mortgage. We decided to build a little smaller. What I am trying to say is get a boat that is snug for two people the animals and then it will be comfortable when the kid goes off to college or their own life the boat will be the right size. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Let us know

[roverhi]

The size of the boat will be a killer without a significant income. Fuel for such a large boat would mean your cruising could be limited to the up and down the dock. Heaven forbid should an engine or other large system need major work.

I'd be looking at a trawler under 40'. Big enough to have plenty of room, small enough to be able to handle in the harbor, though not easily, fuel efficient enough so you could afford to go somewhere.

The other solution would be a motor sailer or cruising oriented sailboat. You can pick up a Pearson 424 relatively cheaply these days. They are technically a sailboat but will motor nicely at 7 knots and the sailplan is broken up into small bits that won't take a lot of muscle to handle. You could treat it as a motor boat while you learned the intricacies of sailing. Buy a sailing dinghy for a tender and that will teach all the basics that you need to sail. Basically, that's what I did to learn how to sail.

If you are going to hang out at marinas, $1,200 a month probably won't make it even on a sail boat. Whatever boat you buy, if you planning on living on that income make sure it is self sufficient and you can live on the hook for extended periods. Know I can on my 35' sailboat but I've handled all my needs with solar panels.

Good luck in your adventure. It will be great, just think you need to get your costs more inline with your income.

Aloha
Peter O.

[CaptainDad]

Sounds fabulous...keep up this forum you may get a few volunteers to come with...choose one with money and experience and BON VOYAGE. As for hoever said don't take your son<explicative deleted>. You had better take him...Those will be the best days of your life and your son will remember you that way forever. BTW...the ICW is fine with a much smaller boat. With that kind of budget, you had better take sailing lessons quick.

Captain Dad
Hilliard-Ohio
1996 Rinker "T-Time"

"Some years ago----never mind how long precisely--- having no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." -Herman Melville; "Moby Dick", Chapter 1, Page 1, Paragraph 1.

[motion30]

I believe the boat and biodiesel should be treated as two different subjects. You can still cast off on diesel. I have traveled a bit and live aboard 6 months a year. IMHO a Trawler in the 40' range with a single diesel and thruster can offer two state rooms decent room inside and out and if in decent shape fit in to your budget for both fuel cost and purchase cost. A cat would be good but will be more costly to buy. Best of luck and remember this is suppose to be fun, a yea you will need a decent dingy as well

[keyspc]

The Keys are a great jumping off point, many do live here on that much or less. they have a mooring field thats seimi protected and dig this,
The college has a dinghy dock! we also have a world famous dive and marine enginering program.
have fun and if your nuts well, then the rest of us are insane

Originally Posted by twisty

The seafood market is paying for the boat. But I can bring my online income up at will, all I have to do is work more than an hour a day.

If memory serves me correctly, it was $1200 to have the headboat fueled up(thats delivered), so it would run me about $2400.

I am thinking The Keys, I havent got as far as looking into dockage yet but I am not opposed to anchoring up either, I would really like to stay on the move as much as possible, see what I can see while I am still young.

The plan is to leave here in mid October, following the snowbirds. What I would like to do when I get there is spend a couple, maybe 3 weeks here and there all winter, then start back in early march, taking my time both ways.

Here anchorage it is not a big deal, the sound provides ample anchorage space as long as I move every three days(they really arent strict on that tho), and fuel is just 6 miles away from where I want to be, if I don't meet the fuel truck at the dock.

[dawnconn]

Twisty, in my humble opinion the only thing to stop one living their dream is money and health - you seem to have access to both - so why not! Wow! I just looked at the kind of boat you're buying online (there's one for sale in FL).
Good for you girl - you're going to have so much fun!
BTW - you just may want to check out the Bahamas, after all they're just a hop across the pond from Ft. Lauderdale and ooooh soooo much nicer than Florida (yes, even the Keys).

[BrightWolf]

I'd like an update to see where you are in your decision making process.

Missy